I still don’t like the horns retcon
April 18, 2011
12:00 am
Yeah, this one probably requires playing Dragon Age 2 to get, but uh, every time I talk to the Arishok and ask him to tell me more about the Qun I just get responses that the Qunari way is too deep and I wouldn’t understand it anyway so why bother.
They always talk about the Qunari as though they’re aggressively trying to recruit converts, so it seems curious the the Arishok would be so tight lipped about his fabulously underground religion.
The last panel is my favorite. I found myself laughing at CB’s expression alone. This makes me want to play DA 2 even more.
This is EXACTLY what I thought when playing DA2 as well; glad I wasn’t going crazy. Agreeing with Yermog; the expression is hilarious.
HIPSTERRRRRR
HIPSTEER! Get it? Hipster. Horns. Steer.
I bet you cant tell though.
It’s pretty deep. Normal people wouldn’t understand it.
This repeating joke is really deep, most people won’t find it funny.
this comment is nested pretty deep…
RiVenox, that repeating joke hasn’t been cool since like April, I can’t believe you even tried. It’s so mainstream.
Pff, you’re conforming to all of that non-conformist stuff.
If being non-conformist is conforming to non-conformity, then there really isn’t non-conformity at all. But then if there isn’t any non-conformity, you can’t conform to it, meaning that it is, in fact, non-conformity. But then you’re conforming to it and-
Oh no, I’ve gone cross-eyed.
After him, men! He’s a double reverse quadruple agent!
I’m willing to tolerate him until he starts talking about indie bands and designer vinyl figures.
Lemme guess, your a brony
You do realize the word “tolerate” existed long before bronies? Also, that there are people who use it who are not, in fact, bronies? MANY people?
It’s nice to see the little interaction between Fenris and the Arishok…though that mostly gives Fenris more characterization.
Interacting with the DA2 qunari speaks wonders of how informative Sten actually was in DA:O. :)
There is some piece of paper you pick up that says Qunari don’t speak to outsiders much because most of them have a very shaky grasp of the common tongue and it shames them that they don’t understand much of what people say to them. Sten makes references a couple times to learning the language by watching people from his cage and playing a lot of Eye-Spy with himself, so I guess he got over that hangup.
LOL yes. Lots of things in Lothering that begin with G. Hahaha.
Sten’s still my Qunari favorite. The Arishok reminds me too much of the judges in Iron Chef.
Now I want one of the tasks to earn the Arishok’s respect to be cooking a three-course meal out of sea cucumber and opossum.
Better break out your Asian cookbook then.
omg this must be done
I found it cool how in the second game you found out that his name wasn’t Sten, it was just his rank. Kind of added to the whole alieness of him.
Though if you walked around with Zevran and Sten in your party in Origins, Zev informs us (through his dealings with the mercenary qunari in Antiva) that Sten isn’t his name but rather his rank.
I can only imagine how Sten will react…
I’m guessing The Arishok is the kind of guy who listens to bands who don’t even exist yet.
HHHHIIIIIPPPSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTEEEEEERRRRRR
It needed to be said. Thank you for doing so.
Filthy HHHHHIIIIPSTEEEEERRRRRR!
OHHHH!! I thought he was a mac fanboy. :P
AKA, a hipster.
Mac’s are to mainstream for hipsters
they use super indie, rarely used linux OS.
What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
NERD ALERT! Get the swirlies ready!
WHAT A HIPSTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Fashion has hit the Qun really hard.
Fourth panel was Gold, by the way, in both image and message. Just capital Gold.
Where the hell is Syndrome when you need him?
Ninja’d.
When everyone is hipster, no one is.
Being unheard of is too mainstream for me.
i dunno, i kinda like the qunari horn thing. Its nice to see a fantasy race that’s human-like, yet has some kind of distinguishing feature. (Or maybe i just want something more dignified than the 4th edition tiefling…what ever)
Either way, well done!
Plus it helps explain why someone as…charismatic…as Sten got to be one of their chief diplomats.
And DA2 players, is it just me, or does sten seem to be a rank in the Qunari forces?
According to the wikis, the Qunari don’t use personal names, they are only referred to by their job titles.
We used to be like that, especially in places like Scotland.
That’s where we get a lot of names and surnames from still. Baker, Miller, Smith, Tyler, Cook, Hunter, Mason, Cooper, Potter, Taylor, Fisher, Shepard, Wrex, etc.
“Shepard, Wrex, etc.”
I see what you did there
What the hell kind of a job was Wrex?
Bad-ass.
I wish there were a “like” button.
Clearly one involving breaking things. By headbutting them.
I’d say it’s a much more english thing than Scottish.
We’ve got a huge number of Mc and Mac names that come from Gaelic to counter balance the job based names, england doesn’t.
If you talk in DA:O enough you find out that Sten is actually his rank not his name.
Yeah, Sten is “Platoon Commander”.
So Commander and Sten are basically calling each other the same name.
I think there’s a “who’s on first” gag just waiting to happen …
Yeah, that Rank/Name answer is delivered when you enter the fade with your party, where you have to rescue everyone from some “mental trap”. I love how they delivered it because the Qunari NPC’s call Sten “The Sten”, you get to ask him “Why do they call you The Sten?” to which he answers “Why do they call you The Warden?”. He actually touché’d me in real life there.
Though I wanted to answer “Because it makes things easier for BioWare”.
I thought it was pretty moving when you’re like “Hey Sten this is a dream” and he just says something to the extent of “I know, but it’s a good dream.”
Yeah, Sten’s dream is one of the better ones, partially because it shows a bit of a new side to the character, and partially because it breaks away from the “this isn’t real – what do you mean – I mean it’s not real – I don’t believe you – but it’s not real – ok I understand now” pattern of almost all the others (except Dog and Morrigan, but Dog’s is boring (if kind of funny) and Morrigan’s is just her being snarky and impatient like always).
In general, Sten is probably the least interesting companions at first glance (and it doesn’t help that powergamer-wise he’s the worst character due to his missing specialisation, and that if you miss him the first time around he’s lost forever and he doesn’t force himself on you like Leliana does) but there’s a lot of nice little touches to the character if you keep him around.
I like keeping him and Shale on my team and listening to them flirt. It’s probably my favourite bit of companion dialogue.
Sten & Shale pretty much start talking by going:
“Man humans suck.”
“Oh my god you hate humans too?”
“Man they suck.”
Then by the end Shale is telling him how much she likes to watch the light play across his muscles.
I want to play with that party build so badly that I may drop my DA2 game.
Seconded. Well that or Zevran harassing Leliana or Leliana harassing Morrigan. Names misspelled.
Actually, not misspelled. Good work.
My personal favorite was was Shale and Morrigan.
“Good job manipulating the warden through sex.”
“I’m not doing that.”
“Oh, compliment withdrawn then.”
And
“I’m going to insult you some more.”
“I’ll turn into a bird and hover over your head.”
“You win this round, witch.”
Oh man, I loved Stens dream, if only because it showed us how qunari act when there aren’t other people around. The men working under him were so much less super serious and joking around, it’s good to know they’re not so alien as they seem when they’re on a mission.
Like how elves have pointed ears? Or Dwarves are proportioned radically differently? Or how gnomes are nearly microscopic and wear red hats?
I dunno, I thought that being seven foot dark skinned musclebound giants with uniformly white, braided hair and jewel tone irises was pretty unique without looking like a Legacy of Kain Disney Gargoyle Teifling Draenei…
Seconded, thirded, and fourthed all at once. The horns piss me the Hell off. The least they could have done was make them a little more subtle. The way they are now makes them look like a massive fuck-off tumor, or, as an in-game confusion, a serious Blight infection. Plus, they look heavy enough to give a dude some serious neck problems, no matter how beastly-ripped those guys are.
They look enormously heavy, but in fact the qunari “horns” are a hollow extension of the nasal canal, responsible for giving qunari their remarkable olfactory ability. Hence the old Thedan joke:
“Tal-Vashoth mercenaries ritually amputate their horns.”
“How do they smell?”
“Terrible.”
I think the horn retcon was probably because of (If I remember correctly) a codex entry in DA:O about the different species of Darkspawn corresponding to the base race of their creating broodmothers, in the case of ogres, the qunari. They probably figured that since ogres have horns, qunari should too.
Yeah, but I figure if elves turn into Shrieks and they aren’t… I dunno… bladed dog monsters under normal circumstances, the horns aren’t a big deal.
The Shrieks have the exact same animation as the werewolves. I noticed that and can’t think of an in universe reason for it (I mean the real reason is probably to save costs and whatnot, but I like thinking up in universe reasons for things).
I guess the whole werewolf thing was an elf curse…
Fan-geek workaround speculation FTW.
(Totally a good point though)
Well… bear in mind that they ret-conned elves to look far more feline/lupine in their facial features at the very least. So… clawed dog-like critter is something less of a leap particularly compared to the hurlocks and genlocks which seem to be identical save for height… which is fairly true of humans and dwarves at this point.
Uh… I didn’t read anything “lupine” in their new look. Unbroken Marv profile =/= canine in my books…. They practically turned all the Qunari into little Ogres, the elf equivalent to that would be a straight-up muzzled, digigrade furry, just a friendly cute one instead of a mean scary one.
That’s a terrifying thought… and I see your point. I meant just a mild “animalistic” trait or two in the elves might have led to that. I have to agree that the Qunari in DA2 are certainly not the Qunari Sten made us love.
Ahahah, I think that’s my biggest issue. I wouldn’t be nearly as bothered by the designs if they hadn’t really made me excited about what could have been.
You and your whole Elf-Shriek comparison thing… If I had a fiver for every time you’ve said that, I’d… have enough for a night out at the Dev, at least.
Still…. I think the horns suit.
You might have noticed, but elves look MORE like Shrieks in DA2 … THAT I’m not so fond of.
I think it was probably more like someone at BioWare wondered if it looked like they were saying tall black people aren’t human…
I think (the original) Qunari were itended to look more like an Arab-Central American fusion, just for argument’s sake. I think the designers specifically refer to Aztec and Islamic cultures in their development
Yeah, I’ve heard similar. To be clear, I DON’T think that they were intending it as a “brown=non-human” thing, just that it’s an easily possible interpretation that BioWare would want to avoid (particularly after they caught some heat for the lack of POC in Origins). I know I got through almost all of Origins still thinking they were just a different nationality of human.
I think the Islam thing was sort of a microcosm that really blossomed in DA2 because the sections of the Qun that is revealed seems a lot like Sharia law, and the Chantry reminded me a lot of the Byzantine/Roman church, with the crusades and all of that crap. BTW honestly think this, not just trying to troll out a religion debate.
To quote the Qunari page in the DAwiki;
The Qunari have been nicknamed “militant Islamic Borg” by Lead Writer David Gaider. Gaider later clarified that he meant this as reference to the Qunari’s relationship with the other nations of Thedas, not to the specific tenets of Islam.
and;
The Qunari are quite likely based partially on the Ottoman Empire and Seljuk Turks, as they are mortal enemies of the Tevinter Imperium, the latter of which has been equated to the Byzantine empire. They possess advanced technology including cannons, are considered heathens by the Chantry and have been the target of multiple Exalted Marches, the Chantry’s equivalent to a Christian Crusade.
I didn’t even realize they were a separate species UNTIL DA2! The entire time I was with Sten, I figured he was just a foreign human with different customs and a different language. Nothing about him screamed ‘other race’ to me, no not even the white hair. His face looks old enough, and he’d been jailed with malnutrition. In addition, it could have just been a traditional dye job for his people; I’ve seen real world customs more extreme than that.
I had actually heard that the original qunari design did have horns, they just weren’t able to impliment it because they didn’t want to spend forever making different helmet designs just for sten to accomidate the horns. Then they changed it back in da2 cuz they only had to make one helmet to put on some qunari, since the player didn’t have a qunari companion to be putting all sorts of crazy hats on.
Regardless of what they intended to to, it was not what they released and got us accustomed to. I personally found the retcon pretty sloppy and disappointing, What they hinted at was much more interesting than what they ended up deciding they wanted to do in my opinion, there are a million horned fanged clawed demony looking fantasy races out there, the tall, tan, white-haired, crayola-eyed Qunari were fairly original.
That’s funny. I never put a helmet on Sten ‘cuz he was too pretty.
I never put a helmet on any of my characters. I hated how they obscured my character’s faces altogether.
Plus, I could sell the helmets for more gold. YAY GOLD!
Had that actually been the case, they could’ve probably given Sten horn stumps or some sort of irregularity on his forehead to let people know there SHOULD have been something there.
I can name off so many races in so many games that fit the description.
I’m a bit confused here. What is it that Commander is hesitant to tell Sten?
That his honorable Arishok is a HIPSTERRRR. It’d be a tough thing for anyone to hear.
(Arishok is the name/title given to leaders and Qunari of high social status. Other Qunari would admire and respect them a great deal.)
Nope The Arishok is one of Triad that lead the Qunari.
Arishok-Millitary
Arigena-Economic
Ariqun-Spiritual
Pfft, I was living in an oppressive theocratic regime before it was “cool”.
It’s not his role to teach you, Qunari don’t seem big fans of doing things beyond that which is demanded by the Qun, or outside their role.
That’s the difference between saying “It’s not my job” and “It’s too deep for you”
That is the largest V-neck ever created.
I bet it gives him +2 Charisma….
Is it too late to coin the term “Twonari” (2nari)? Because I feel like it’s appropriate.
I’m still fond of Retconari.
I’m just sad that a great character like the Arishok was wasted on an incomplete, rushed cash-in like DA2 was.
Same with Varric and to some extent, Hawke.
As much as DA2 felt like buying an expansion pack of sidequests, I think they did enough right with it that it plays a good part in fleshing out the world. It’s like a game devoted to making you understand the way things work over there, it seems like it’s more suited to fans who really care about the world-building aspect of the RPG than to people stepping in for the first time.
‘course, that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m the kind of fan of the DA mythos that I don’t mind paying for what’s basically a runabout Dragon Age sandbox.
My landlord actually works for Bioware, as one of the QA guys; he says that DA2 is more of a bridging game to flesh out the world, setting the stage for future games.
That’s how the ending felt, definitely. Kind of a, “Didja like this? Then wait for the next installment!” I personally love chicken-chasing and world development; the only thing I truly missed was DA:O’s dialogue, being able to just turn to a character and ask questions.
Yeah, I really missed being able to shoot the shit with my companions whenever.
D: Now I suddenly don’t want DA:2. That was what made the game not just be a bunch of repetative fights (I mean, you can only kill a genlock so many times and see it drop the exact same way before it becomes just another kill.)
Noo, definitely get DA2. While the ability to turn around and just chat with your party is missing, the characters in DA2 are really charming and are well worth the game, IMO. In DA:O I liked the characters, but I didn’t care as much what they thought about me unless I was romancing one of them, while in DA2 I was way more concerned with how each individual party member would react to my decisions. Weighing my options about who I wanted to take with me on a quest and also who would react poorly/favorably to it was really difficult, haha. XD
While I miss being able to strike up a conversation just wherever, I have come to appreciate the way you have to go track your companions down to start a talk with them.
It’s gotten me even more invested in the relationships with the rest of the party than I was in DA:O.
I thought I was one of the only people who really liked doing that. In fact, I’d spend literally 2 hours after Lothering talking to all the characters, to where I exhaust all the options for conversation.
…..but I loved Varric…. He was funny…. :’C
“Hawke said with a twinge of nostalgia”
I rather love how Varric breaks the 4th wall on a regular basis. I feel a bit cheated that BioWare used an 18th century-style narrative device in order to pull it off (see Frankenstein and Dracula), but I suppose I’m pretty pleased with how it’s all stitched together.
Sometimes I feel like I’m playing the angry Chantry inquisitor, since I have the “whoa-whoa-whoa, wait” moments at the same time she does.
Varric breaks the fourth wall…?
I know I dropped the game early (just after returning from the Deep Roads) but I didn’t see him break it. Does he start doing it after this event? I might actually pick it back up just because of that, even Deadpool’s cheap shots amuse me, I’m sure Varric would manage…
Kinda odd, though. Doesn’t sound like something I’d see him do from what I experienced.
I think they might be talking about places where Varric and Hawke act as though Varric is telling a story, and add things like “Varric said sarcastically” or whatever. I didn’t really count it as fourth-Wall breaking, though, it’s no secret that he goes to the bar and tells all his buddies about Hawke’s exploits.
Oh, wait, there is one point where he’s talking about his brother gets kinda out-there, it’s probably one of the best moments in the game.
Oh well, that is kinda funny, but I think it wouldn’t be breaking the fourth unless he acknowledges he’s a fictitious character, or part of a video game, or talks to the player (directly), or refers to the time passed as the “chapters” or “episodes” as we measure them, or–
This could get long, but that gives a simple and general idea of what I thought entitled breaking it, right?
No, I agree, I was just trying to think of what they might have meant by breaking the fourth wall. The only thing I can think of is one part where you’re playing and *spoiler*when you go into a building Varric is the only person on your team, so playing as him you execute a few dozen soldiers and then find his brother who starts professing how Varric was always the smartest handsomest son that “mother always loved best” until the woman who’s grilling him for the story is like “yeah, that didn’t happen.” and you start the level again with the whole team. *spoiler*
He’s not acknowledging that he’s a game character, but it is reminding you that this whole thing is just a story he’s telling.
You know, when I played the demo I expected that to be very, very common place. Like every few “events”. It really drew me in and was pretty disappointed to only experience it pretty much only on the “intro” all the way up to what I played (the Deep Roads, like I mentioned before). Knowing it at least happens again… Well I’ll admit it makes me want to pick up the game again. A little. Also Varric. But the game itself… ugh… I’ll just keep that part out as a Wall-o’-Text Prevention.
I got out of our meta-topic here, wait– Right, fourth wall. I follow you, though that part still doesn’t seem to go there. It’s just a storyteller exaggerating some events to another character.
Just in case, I’m aware you were just trying to make the connection there.
OH GOD. OH GOD I LOVE THIS. THE ARISHOK IS A HIPSTERRRRRR!
It’s just like Scientology.
Back in the halcyon days of playing DA:O, I used to joke that Sten was probably a dour, taciturn killjoy even for qunari, which was why he got sent on all the missions to faraway lands.
But in DA2, it looks like Sten is the most chipper qunari there ever was. Shit, he’s probably the qunari equivalent of the double rainbow guy. Thedas-edition Youtube probably has viral videos of an autotuned Sten going on about cookies and occasionally speaking in full sentences.
I think this metaphor may have gotten away from me a little.
Yeah, upon meeting all the Legacy of Kain disney Gargoyle shovelface Qunari it occurred to me that by their standards Sten was probably the prettyboy of the species.
Which is probably fitting, considering how fond of him you are.
No, no keep going I sense a YouTube video here.
I actually have come to like the horns. It gives the Qunari a bit more of a distinguishing visual profile, like the elves fabulous ears or the short, broad dwarves. Plus, hipster or no, the Arishock looked completely bad-ass.
I liked the horns when I saw the first trailer, but now they’re just too mainstream.
This made me laugh more than it should.
Me too.
HIPSSTTEEEEEER
I laughed hard enough to hurt myself.
ENTIRE QUN IS HIPSTERS
All that remains is for him to realise he’s too indie for oxygen, as well as being too indie for death, and see the paradox/mental breakdown that results.
Guess the bigger the horns are, the bigger the jerk the Qunari is ^^;
Damn it. CANNOT UNSEE!!!
This is hilarious. Thank you, I needed that this morning.
Syndrome needs a comeback now that there is actually a hipster up in here.
The Arishok isn’t supposed to say anything, righ? Just go there and kill things. I don’t really know, I haven’t finished the game yet.
Hahaha, -love- the glasses!
Hahahahaha Oh god…..This made my morning all the more awesome.
…Hip-Shok hahahahaha!
Teeecchhnniiicallyyy, there are specific roles within the Qun concerned with proselytizing. The Arishok doesn’t bother with it because it is not his role.
Yeah, but, yanno, when someone’s expressing interest in your culture, an “I am not trained to properly explain this”a la DA:O Sten goes further than “It’s too deep for you.” Granted, the Arishok did give both of those responses at different times but still.
The Arishok IS also a bit of a dick.
well, like, If you were an afghan that can speak good english, you wouldnt go into some american fort and ask the chief commander about american culture and christianity.. I mean hes not a theologian or clergyman, they were just on theri way on a military-mission to find stuff..
aaand.. i LOVE the horns.. Sten was born without any horns, therefore he has no protrusions (because that sometimes happens?) but he looks like any other guy just with a bit different hair and eyes. So i never got that he was somebody of a foreign race…
so, I like the qunari in 2 even more than in 3..
I like those hard faces- the copy-paste-stuff annoys me, also the inability to just let female muscular gals (like bodybuilding-physique) exist..
Its like in every mmo ever- the guys get a range of bbodies, the females just get differnt height and a bit different skintone and that was it.. ugh
Epic.
*holds out jar*
Hey. I was being ironic.
Must have been too deep. You didn’t understand it.
Jars are to mainstream, man.
I know. I use indie jars.
But maybe they’re so mainstream that it becomes ironic to have a jar.
Which makes them cool again.
Irony is so mainstream.
Saying something is mainstream is so mainstream.
Hipster IMPLOSION!
We’ve hipcepted three levels deep.
Meh, Inception is way to mainstream.
*pushes up hipster glasses*
We need to go deeper.
TWSS
being a hipster is so mainstream.
Spot on. Even that one ex-Tal-Vashoth guy you ran into in Act I was more forthcoming about the Qun than the damned Arishok. I’m fairly certain Arishok actually means “Guy Who Sits on a Chair and Looks Badass” in the Qunari language.
…I miss Sten :(
A little piece of me died every time I knocked down a Sten in combat :c
This.
Heart broken the first time, as I didn’t know it was a rank.
That is an awesome mustache. All I can grown is this pencil shit :{
WTF, what?
Do the creep, awww, do the creep, awww.
When you see a country peach hanging out at the beach do the creep! *haaaa* Do the creep! *haaaa*
My god yes. The first time I faced a Sten, I was like “STEN, NOOOOO” and then I was like “Oh, rank, right…” but it still made me sad.
I would love to finish dragon age, some time… I think I’m going to have to buy a ps3 for this alone. HONESTLY.
Also figure out how to get my save file from you.
And then play dragon age 2.
ahahha maybe I could save it on a USB key or something?
On my first read-through, I thought the second E in “deep” was actually an R.
That second E is a surprisingly important letter.
Oh god, this made me laugh so hard.
You, sir, get a free internet.
If Qun warriors are disciplined, fierce warriors without equal, then I would fear meeting one of their priest rank members.
They would probably convert you so fast you grow horns.
I FREAKED OUT and spent half an hour scouring google and the DA wiki just to make sure the first Sten I killed in DA2 wasn’t, you know, actually the Sten we knew in DA:O.
That said, I love the Arishok, but damn if he isn’t a huge dick.
I love that the office around them appears to be built for people even larger than the Arishok. I guess it’s just lucky for Gyarados that it isn’t any smaller than jackass-who-won’t-take-off-his-space-armor size.
I tried so hard to help the Qunari, maker knows I tried everything, but if you are SO INTENT ON BEING STUPID AND DIEING than fine, be that way.
No kidding, especially if you gain his respect. I do think he’s pretty badass, but the whole “You know, I like you, but you’re not obscure enough to understand my belief system,” was sort of a disappointment to me. He’ll tell people that you are worth respect, he’ll tell nobles you’re better than they are, he’ll even give you the honor of a one-on-one duel. But the Qun is just too exclusive.
Funny thing, I was really hoping you would randomly decide to draw the Arishok sometime. This is both what I hoped for and hilariously different at the same time. Thank you.
I felt obligated to kill him in hand-to-hand combat because he made such a big deal out of how much he respected me and I felt like I owed it to him. Granted, running in circles around a pillar while I eat potions probably isn’t a very profound way to duel someone.
I think he would have appreciated the irony.
*rimshot*
That very same thought struck me as well. My Hawke is a rogue. I had to break out the bow, which I never do, and basically run run run until I had an opening, all the while musing at how much of a pussy I was being, AFTER ALL THAT TALKING UP HE GAVE ME. “This is what respect looks like! Some of you may… never mind.”
It’s a very HIPSTER way.
So an elf and the devil had a baby? Im trying to figure out what they are….
They used to be seven foot Turkish Aztec elves. Now they’re Disney Gargoyles.
Also, Panel 3, he almost has pecs so big they look like boobs.
………..
Not saying i was staring at his chest :)
You were totally checking out his man-maries.
I was too worried that I might get my face ripped off during my first conversation with him to realize that you’re right; he is kind of a hipster. xD
Oh man. So hilarious, and so true.
Oh my god, this is exactly what I felt when I asked him about it. Eventually I just decided to assume that since he’s in charge of the army and not priests or recruiting, he actually just sucks at explaining the qun.
Or maybe he just leaves it for people who aren’t as stressed as he always seems. Dude has a lot on his plate.
A WILD SYNDROME APPEARED!
WILD SYNDROME USED “HIPSSSTERRR!!”
…IT WASN’T VERY EFFECTIVE.
THIS.
I think that’s what put me off from even trying DA2 the most. It wasn’t the supposed clunky battle system, or the fact the whole story is set in one town where one of the head writers is basically a fanfiction writer doing the gay romances…It was the fact they got that one artist who did the mass effect phone game and these terrible writers together to create the most generic Quanari ever. They didn’t even explain it in a way that made sense. Why not say that Quanari live a long time like elves, and after exploring the world on a pilgrimage they grow their horns? Bam. Makes sense and doesn’t retcon.
BUT NOOOOOOOOO. STEEEEEEEEEEN.
Despite the legitimate problems with the game, most of which have been brought up here, it isn’t actually a bad game in any sense of the word. Apparently it differs from platform to platform, but the battle system is actually much improved, at least on PS3- there’s no more awkward shuffling back and forth like you’re a couple of fourteen-year-olds trying to ballroom dance.
And the main character does actually have a character. Although by the halfway point it became pretty obvious to me that the game was basically playing through the backstory of a really well-developed secondary character. If the Warden ever becomes the player character again, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawke gets relegated to party member.
But yeah, some of the style and story decisions are… a little questionable.
Yeah, I liked the battle system so much I had a hard time going back and playing the first game. In this one, everyone in the way of your weapon when you swing it takes a hit, in the other you only engage one guy at a time until they fall over.
I actually really loved the first games battle system: On the PC. It wasn’t something they should have made for console, but it ended up working out okay. The second one (watching my roommate play quite a bit) looked pretty great for a console game, but quickly boring. I think maybe making a weird hybrid of the two systems for a third game where there’s tactics and action touches (like hitting everyone in front of you, not just one person) would make it really awesome.
Then again I’m a sucker for DnD like games.
“or the fact the whole story is set in one town where one of the head writers is basically a fanfiction writer doing the gay romances…”
I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say. All the romanceable characters were bi, it wasn’t just the one, and they were all written by different people.
“It was the fact they got that one artist who did the mass effect phone game and these terrible writers together”
It was the exact same writing team as DA: Origins.
I read an interview with one of the senior writers talking about how they liked writing gay ‘fanfiction” and such after writing the romances for DA2. Probably my memory being wrong but that stuck with me pretty badly haha. didn’t know it was the same writing team, though that’s a bit of disappointment after the first game.
http://skittlefox.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dragonage2_conceptart_01.jpg <- thisis mostly me being picky about the artist trying to make all the females SUPER HOT and throwing away the first games look.
I was disappointed by the dwarf woman in that especially, they were super adorable in the first game but that concept art was just… bleh. They made the features more angular, added muscle and cut fat, it’s like… tried to make them more attractive by making them more “fashion model” and doing everything sharp and striking, but that doesn’t work for the dwarves and just makes them less appealing than what they had before. That doesn’t look like a cute dwarf girl, it looks like Winona Ryder’s head attached to a very short female bodybuilder.
It almost seems ironic that the concept art says they’re trying to explore different standards of beauty when it feels like they uh… just drew everyone there to pretty modern North American standards of beauty.
It almost makes me glad there were no dwarf women in da2. Except not really. I miss the da dwarf women T_T
Yeah, if they wanted to explore beauty why not make the quanari girls super waif? In the first game Sten says that women are only allowed to be in the peaceful, agricultural/spiritual roles of society so why is the one in the concept art there with HUGE muscles? Why not make them all super tall and weird thin? It would be really interesting to know that not only are they crazy religious but also womanizers/sexist.
And beards on dwarves, because fuck if I wanna play a midget winona ryder.
I actually read a thing from Bioware on the Qunari saying that all the people with administrative government type jobs are women as well, and that men are only in charge of matters related to war or heavy labour. They were saying that from an outside perspective it seems like women run the society but there’s some Qunari proverb about how “a person needs a heart as well as a brain to function”.
Part of me thinks it’s a cool concept but another part of me is dissappointed that now if I do anything with a sci-fi thing I came up with years ago where the society the antagonist comes from has women in all the strategic positions as generals and commanders but men as the foot soldiers, people will think I’m ripping off Bioware.
And remember, the Qunari women can’t be waifish ’cause they gotta be sturdy enough for all the super kinky sex they’re having :P
Sadly, I think the nerd collective would sooner say you’re ripping off Forgotten Realms before Bioware.
Honestly, I say go for it. The way you portray the sexes in general is a very unique and interesting glimpse as far as I can tell.
What JT said. It’s also done in the Star Wars EU (the Hapans and Dathomir); the concept of matriarchal society in general isn’t new.
But I love a story that plays with gender roles, so I never mind when it gets trotted out.
I was under the impression that while women were priests and administrators, they also fell into labor intensive jobs like farmers, construction workers, blacksmiths ect. There’s no real reason they would be thin if they’re often assigned to jobs like that.
Plus, how long as the qun been around? There’s no reason the sexual dimorphism of the whole species would change quickly just because one religion came around. For all we know, before the qun, qunari women were running around beating the crap out of everything.
Aaaand I just realized that the human and elf woman are standing on their toes for no reason. Whut?
Maybe to show a bit of calf muscle? (And if this is so, they must have frighteningly thin legs…..)
Sexual dimorphism? :D?
The four regular ones were bi, but Sebastian was straight. She may have just heard the kerfuffle about David Gaider defending their choice to have Anders make the first move, but Gaider wasn’t the one who ultimately wrote Anders anyway. He was done by Jennifer Helper, who wrote most of the DA:O dwarf NPCs, the Dwarf Commoner Origin, and the Anvil of the Void.
I feel bad that the first picture of Jennifer Helper I ever saw was one where she looked incredibly goony and someone photoshopped it to say “Hamburger Helper”.
I laugh every goddamn time and it makes me feel bad.
Especially since her name is Hepler.
aside from the hipster part which really does fit i thought the Arishok was more reluctant to speak about the Qun because it is not his place to teach others.
they stressed pretty heavily that all have a place in the Qun and his is to lead not to convert more followers.
really I would of even accepted that Sten and most Qunari are actually hornless and only their leaders have horns as a show of their right to rule or Sten and his team were sort of a PR team for the Qunari in that they were hornless and so people thought them less demonic.
otherwise i have to admit i am one of the few people who seemed to have almost no real problems with the game that i didn’t get over in the first 5 minutes
That’s their reason for it, but they don’t even look “hornless”, they look like a completely different species with no fangs or claws, a different skin colour, different features, and none of that body paint business (When you see the soldiers in his dream they’re all suited up for combat and wearing armour, not sitting around topless and painting sunbursts on each other). Even other people in the comments have offered up more viable retcons, just say something like “when they live for a couple hundred years they start growing horns and fangs” Elves live for centuries so why not?
On the subject of “not being his place to recruit converts”, that may be, but they obviously take converts as becomes a plot point in the second act, even if he’s not the one converting them, there’s a difference between “explaining this is not my job” and “You aren’t capable of understanding this”.
I do have to say I understand why the qunari in da2 didn’t have armor. They were shipwrecked, most of them dropped everything but their weapons in order to swim to shore. Then, there’d likely be few people willing to sell them armor in kirkwall.
…which is a good excuse for the first year or so they’re there at least.
If they’re as efficient and warmongering as they’re supposed to be, you’d think that in four years of actively planning a siege on the city someone would get a smithy going so they had something more than “wear leather pants and throw sticks” going for them. I mean like… four people cleared out the entire regiment in like fifteen minutes.
Perhaps they wanted to intimidate everyone with their sexypecs.
It worked on me.
But for serious I got the feeling they weren’t intending to siege the city untill after they got the book, went back to Saheron, explained how shitty the city was and how they wanted to attack it, and then came back with more people and armor. But they got pushed too far and that plan went down the crapper.
…..yeah ok, I’m grasping at straws. I just apreciate showing manchest too much to be unbiased.
I think their being shipwrecked was the reason they were stuck with javelins and trousers. I mean, it’s not exactly easy to swim in full plate. And I doubt they’d be able to just go up to a smith and order 300 suits of qunari-scaled armour without at least someone asking what they need it for.
Either that, or they’re so dismissive of the Kirkwallians that they think they don’t even need shirts to beat them.
I figure if every piece of armour in Dragon Age land is so one-size-fits-all anyone from Ogrhen to Sten can wear it and there are boxes of equipent all over the wounded coast, it can’t be that hard to track down armour…
I’m sorry, a show of sexypecs needs no explanation, it is it’s own explanation.
I guess I feel like if I want to have any credibility when I say I prefer to see female characters get practical armour and uniforms, I need to give equal discretion to games with the dudes running off into combat in leather pants. :P
Noooo… don’t be threatening the fanservice.
What needs to happen is that the fanservice be equally applied. As long as there are plenty of Qunari doing the whole naked woad thing, let the menfolk have their busty wenches.
Ahahahah believe me, I am all about the equal opportunity fanservice, I think I’m just disappointed that the supposedly ultra efficient military race didn’t show up better prepared for the seige they’d been hammering out for the last four years :P
‘We shall seige… their women. And also… some of their men.’
‘But what of the city?’
‘Patience. All in due time.’
Speaking of fanservice, the Arishock is WORKIN those tight pants in panel 2. Most hipster guys just look like still-in-wrapper drinking straws in theirs.
on the other hand, the shirtless dudes from one shipwrecked ship overcame and entire cities army, guard and templars on their own so they did something right. (you know the arishok could have put down orsino and meredith on his own.)
Even though he was a hipster, I liked the Arishok. I gained his respect and killed him in the face. It was a good day.
@sanguis3K: I had no problems with it either. I got used to it quite quickly and love it. The only thing that sort of annoys me is that every mage in Kirkwall appears to be a bloodmage. Even Orsino, which just made me think that Meridith had a point, and that I shouldn’t have killed her in the face too.
Orsino’s conversion to blood magic and a pact with a demon only makes a point that when you back a mage into a corner, they are going to do whatever it takes to survive. Even make demon pacts. Since the Templars are always backing mages into a corner – especially those under Meredith’s rule – she forced them to use blood magic, make pacts with demons and thus become a danger to everyone. So it’s her fault, really. (In fact, even Meredith is using a demon with her Lyrium weapon, so there, waaa waaa)
Also, as Merril the elf proves, blood magic isn’t inherently evil. Using blood magic then making pacts with demons who gravitate to blood magic is. Merril’s Seeker has to prove that to Merril by making a pact with a demon, since Merill is so close to making a pact to fix the damn mirror. Which leads to the entire genocide of her people. Guess what? I don’t think Merril will ever make a pact with a demon after that shiz. Even if it meets her goal of saving the knowledge of her peoples’ past.
Ahahah… yeah… I dunno if “Merril dabbling in blood magic and eventually leading to the genocide of her people” inherently proves “blood magic isn’t bad” just because Merril came out of it unposessed. That seems like a “chalk this up to bad things caused by blood magic” kinda situation. (Though if we could go into the fade and kill the demons in that one kid’s head, I don’t see why we couldn’t do the same for the keeper and… y’know… saved the tribe…) That was pretty heartbreaking killing all those elves, because they played them up as the tribe that the Dalish Warden came from in Origins and that was what my DA:O character was :c
You don’t have to kill the elves. If you pick the option “I take responsability for merrill” they’ll let you go without a fight, if you promise to never let her come back.
Plus I’m pretty sure it’s a glitch that the whole tribe attacks you, instead of just the ones at the top of the mountain. I think they said they’d fix it in a patch.
I didn’t realize that the first time I did it and just reloaded and didn’t finish her quest. I couldn’t handle killing the whole tribe T_T
Well damn.
Well, nothing bad would have happened with Merril’s blood magic use if she just would have given up the mirror. But she never does, she keeps wanting to hold onto that whole “our ancestors” thing. Had she not pursued it, you would have never had a problem with the Dalish Keeper biting it, because then she would have had no reason to make a pact with a demon. But since she couldn’t let go, the Keeper made a deal with the demon to save Merril from her own ambitions.
I was like DERP DERP Merril’s story is gonna end badly right after I met her. I knew she was too ambitious for her own good. Although in the end, she was the female my character ended saying “I LURVE YOU” to. It was cute, she was like all in white going, “I love you Hawke. OMG I love you!” all the time. I felt bad that I had to kill her tribe and bring her much pain (although now knowing I can AVOID killing the tribe makes me sadder).
Again, blood magic is not inherently evil, just easier and more powerful. Evil is drawn to blood magic, which makes it easier to be lured into a pact with a demon. Most mages can resist, but the few who can’t wreck utter destruction on the mortal plane.
DX NOOOOOOOO!!! WHY GOD, WHY?!
The Arishok’s pose on panel 3 reminds me strangely of Bayonetta
I agree about the retcon.
I love any comic you do with Sten as well, he was one of my favorite parts about the first game.
I heard Valley Girl Arishok.
“So, like, ya wanna know about the Qun and stuff? Well, like, this stuff is waaay too much for ya. But if ya feel like joining the Qun and junk, like, we’ll totally, like, teach ya. But ya gotta leave yer life and name behind and junk cuz, like, that’s totally not cool. So, like, see ya laaaaateerr.”
it was never a retcon, it always was. sten was one of those rare qunari with no horns.
google what the creator of the qunari said its based upon
“militaric islamic borgs”
assimilate, or die basicly. they are agressive, thats one of the few points. No women are fighters due to they believe men and women, no matter how good they show skills for it, are still better at certain things. thats why the females are administration and running the show, and farmers. a male qunari will farm if he needs to, but if not, then the leaders, which again, are women, will decide and put said qunari in a different role.
They come from the east originally, from some unknown country and then settled northeast if I remember correctly. There will be female qunari aswell, hopefully some fighters, which again qunari women has to fight if they need to in the same way a qunari male needs to do administrative work if some assasin killed whatever women who was doing the administrative work.
The most fun I had in dragon age 2 was fighting the qunari, they are the favorite group to kill with bloodlust!
Yeah, I played the game and read the Qunari wiki too.
They also didn’t live on Dragon’s Age’s plane of existence until about 300 years ago.
I didn’t like the horns either. The trailers and commercials made him seem like the leader of the Darkspawn, which is what I thought when I first saw them (the trailers, not the horns). I wondered why humans where cheering him on.
So, is Varric Manly enough for Manly Guys Doing Manly Things?
Totally.
Varric is the paragon of Manliness
approves + 25
Awesome comic as always.
The first time I ran across an enemy named ‘Sten’ in the game, I forgot that it was his rank and was SUPER confused/frustrated that I just killed my former companion.
Crap. I don’t play that game so I’m just at a loss here.
Your gonna make fun of the comic book movies coming out, right? *uses droopy doe eyes of persuasion*
P.S.
How did the guys take the news that All My Children and One Life to Live got canceled?
Off topic but…
Game of Thrones Premiere: Yay/Nay?
Haven’t gotten to see it yet, I don’t have cable. My buddy recorded it though, so it’s either getting it off him or finding a stream somewhere….
Jaime would definitely qualify as a Manly Guy. Also the Cleganes. And Jorah Mormont (of BEAR ISLAND!).
It’s not a retcon though. Seriously, play Dragon Age: Origins and read the Codex, you find out that Sten is actually a fluke among the Qunari, it also explains why the trolls have horn being that they’re the darkspawn created from the Qunari. It’s not that deep, you will understand, the retcon thing is a myth. :P
Unless that was a patch they added after the fact, I never found any mention of that when I played origins. I did see the writers talking about wanting to add it in through the back door before 2 came out. Even if it was their intent with the first game, they’re still taking something that used to be original and making it generic. If they wanted to throw in a Disney Gargoyle Qunari, there were a ton of less hamfisted ways they could have handled it.
“Uh yeah so can I know a little bit more about this way of life/religion you guys got going on?”
“It’s like… you know man, just go with man. You just know it.”
^ Pretty much every answer I got in DA2 to asking about the Qun. I took great pleasure in killing many of them.
Wow, you never fail to disappoint Coelasquid.
Huh. well, going by previous comments you seem to have left here like “I will never grow tired of reading all these. These always bring a laugh to any time of day” and “And one panel is all you need for sheer genius. Baby Mr. Fish, what’ll Jared do next?”, I’d assume that I’m not always disappointing you.
^like
According to the wiki, the hornless ones are apparently the ones that act as sort of the PR people of the Qunari, with the horned ones knowing even less common language. Apparently, they’re sent out first to other countries, though I get the feeling they’re sent more like exiles than convoys. However, if this is true, that means horned qunari are even more of hipsters, as they’re then the only ones into* the Qunari women, who are so underground they’re invisible.
Anyways, I actually like the new qunari, just like I like the new elves, as for me it separates them from being humans with a growth problem and actually into something that I feel is a different race (rather than ethnicity). I still support the idea of hornless qunari, and I’d really like to see both types in the same game, however, Awakening proved to me that the hornless just didn’t feel different enough on their own (when I encountered the shopkeeper, it took my character pointing out his race for me to realize he wasn’t just an asshole human).
*This is one of the worst puns I’ve ever done.
Man, the new elves are eerie. Their irises are like bigger than softballs. I was like, “O HAI CUTE ELF GIRLS OMG WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER EYES?!!?”
I think that was kind of the point. They were using the Uncanny Valley in order to make you realize that elves weren’t just humans that decided to change their ears, and were actually recognizable from humans if they wore their hair down (something that bugged me in the first game. Were people just that good at recognizing heights?).
Yeah, I read all their explanation for it too, I just think that there are a million better ways they could have made them distinct without going “Oh, by the way, they whole race is made of Legacy of Kain extras, we just didn’t tell you before because Sten, all his soldiers, the merchants, and every Qunari footsoldier and mercenary you’ve met to date were all very special snowflakes”.
All the characters got upgraded faces in the new game, they could have just made the facial features more distinct like they did when they gave all the elves Marv’s profile. Qunari already had pointed ears pointed ears and no eyebrows, they could have just given them a heavier browline or something without changing their hair, claws, teeth, skin colour, and giving them horns. And if they were totally deadset on having a WoW monster Arishok they could have been like “Hey when Qunari live a long time they go pale and grow horns.” As it was, it seemed like a half-assed Klingon retcon. Except the Klingons did it better because they actually look distinct and unique, instead of like every horned-clawed-fanged humanoid race in all of fantasy media.
Yeah I can understand that. It would have been nice to see exaggerations rather than changes like they did with the elves (by the way, it isn’t just the eyes. Turn them sideways and you’ll notice they changed up the neck/chin connection to make use of the Uncanny valley to separate them from humans). However, as I’ve stated, Origins’ Qunari just didn’t seem all that different (save for having a dwarf chin).
If they are going to show hornless qunari again, hopefully they do something along the lines of having the area where they eyebrows are look something like unformed horns to merge the two ideas together.
Of course, there’s always the fact that qunari, elves, darkspawn, etc. might not actually be all that different, given the framing device of the story (although it could also be argued that the “Tale of the Warden” was the one that got them wrong).
However, talking about the new design, I do have to give out a lot of compliments to how it does work with what we’ve been told about Qunari.
The horns we see sort of their laid back yet ready to fight sort of attitude (indicative of sudden brutish violence yet pulled back to be less threatening). It also gives the feeling of that racial pride (which seems to come with the idea of horns normally), as well as the sort of “let things happen” attitude (they serve to replace hair as the head dominant non facial feature of the head, where there is order in it through just allowing it to grow. Speaking of the hair there, you also see that the Qunari just let it grow, with only the leader keeping things in control. You also see a reason why there are no eyebrows). They’re still ashen (though a bit more exaggerated) giants with scowling faces. The claws and fangs are a bit much still, but they seem to go with an idea of opposing magic in favor of natural order.
Sure, it reminds me of a lot of different fantasy races, but it’s not completely opposed to what qunari were.
It actually really bothered me that they stopped having braided hair. I know it would look overly cluttered with the horns, but I thought it was a good visual statement about their dicipline. Long hair is horribly inefficient in combat, it gets in your face, it’s easy for an opponent to grab, if you’re living on a battlefield it’s hard to clean and much more susceptible to parasites. It’s much more practical for someone leading a warrior life like that to have close-cropped if not shaved hair. That they keep it long and tied up in neat, uniform braids speaks volumes about their pride and discipline, that they are so efficient they can maintain a vanity like long hair in a controlled, military fashion. Just letting it grow as it will seems diametrically opposed to their standards of uniformity, and letting it hang loose takes away that sense of control and pride in presentation.
As for the features, though, In the concept art they do have a very distinct non-human facial structure, at least as non-human as the elves. If they just went with that without the horns it would work. The skin tones are more than just “more ashen”, though. DA:O Qunari had realistic skin tones, the new ones are just gray and pinkish-gray.
That’s actually a very good point there. I guess they don’t think anyone would try to reach around their horns to grab their hair (that or the braids were the “hornless”‘s way of appearing like the rest of the group). It seems a bit strange that there wouldn’t at least be a code to have it tied up in battle.
Also, what concept art are you referring to? All I found was the 4 images of the new qunari holding a skull (which brings up the saarebas having their horns cut, a nice little touch). As for the grey skin, I really don’t mind it that much. Sure, I would have liked for them to have that red skin the concept art said as well, but I think it might have just served to make them look more like the Gargoyles if they did (though at that point, I think would have just gone along with it and wanted the rest of the colors like green and blue).
Since I’ve really got no more I can think of to say on this topic, I hope you don’t mind if I take this opportunity to ask you a question: Where do you want DA3 to take place/focus on, and would you prefer the Warden or Hawke to be the protagonist?
That’s the art I talking about, but if it was just the facial structure without the horns/claws/fangs/nonhuman skin tones, it wouldn’t have been as strikingly Disney Gargoyle, at least in my opinion.
I actually wouldn’t mind a totally new protagonist, to be honest (I’m still holding out the hope for a playable Qunari someday… someday…) With the amount they talk about Seheron and Par Vollen, I’d really like if they took us there sometime. I don’t feel like there’s anything to be gained by bringing back the Warden, though, with all of the option and different endings it was hard enough just to pull off Awakening, or sync up the story with the second. I feel like it gives them a lot more story freedom to just say “that story is done.” and start a new one.
(Just like us ME fans want a Hanar companion)
I actually really did want to go with Sten after the epilogue, so I’d have to agree with you there. Other than that, I’m hoping we’ll see the Black City a bit. If we have to choose one of the two larger, more talked about places, I’m hoping we go with Antiva over Orlais.
While I wouldn’t mind spending more time with my Hawke over the Warden, the idea of another protagonist (maybe in the Seekers) isn’t a bad one. I’d still like to see things flow throughout games though.
Bodhan said he and Sandal were heading to Orlais next, I took that less as a hint as an outright statement.
Yeah, that’s what I figured was coming when I heard him say that. I was telling a friend the other day that I think it would be cool if they did another origins-style approach with a new non-warden non-hawke character. Like, If you play as a Mage you start in Tevinter, if you play as a Rogue you start in Antiva, if you play as a warrior you start in Seheron, something like that. It would give them a chance to show off a bit more of the world even with the huge “next game will be in Orlais” foreshadow.
Tis true, he’s a total goddamn hipster >.>
Like other hipsters, he’s just very insecure. He doesn’t think he can explain Qun philosophy, so he doesn’t try. He deflects you with all sorts of off-putting statements as well.
…Or maybe it’s just lazy writing… I kinda feel like I’m dealing with a Katamari of dialogue instead of a person when I talk to the Arishok. Creative Designer: “We need x to move the plot along”; Writer “Ok… I’ll just stick it… somewhere… AH! the Arishok! Perfect.”
One lingering thing about the Qun bothers me. This song is all I can think of when I hear one of them say Qun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1nP2vYO24k. Ironic a bit, I suppose, since that song brought down a warrior race.
How are the horns a retcon if the Darkspawn ogres have horns and the Darkspawn ogres come from Qunari broodmothers?
It’s been bugging me for a very long time now…
*reads some comments right above this one*
Rephrase: Why are people upset about the horns being “added” when they were already hinted at (via the Darkspawn ogres) in Dragon Age: Origins?
I get that there’s a bit of retcon with the Qunari without horns being special (as there were a lot of them in Dragon Age: Origins), but that doesn’t mean that the horns themselves are retcons or retconned in… just that the NPC hornless Qunari in DA:O were retconned out…
Because it was sloppily handled and turned them into a completely different looking creature, which looks remarkably similar to every dime-a-dozen clawed-horned-fanged fantasy race out there. Regardless of what they may have wanted to do originally and how many breadcrumbs they dropped leading up to the revamp, They made a choice, they presented a character in a certain way, and went they decided they wanted to change it after the fact people with a similar opinion to mine were disappointed by the lacklustre design and hamfisted introduction.
You dont like ham or breadcrumbs?
Not in my Qunari experience.
What bothers me more than the horns is the fact that they went from bronze-skinned to pale-skinned. Sure the horns were a pretty stupid (and pointless) retcon, but did their entire race get struck with sudden albinism while Sten was out in Ferelden or something?
The albinism bugged me too! And the fact that the added horns meant that they got completely different head models, and so they all wound up with pretty much the exact same face. Even if you were looking forward to the changes, I think that would be disappointing. I liked the old qunari – some folks said that they didn’t look fantastical enough, but I thought the subtlety was a nice change of pace…
I feel pretty much exactly the same.
I thought it made the game more interesting too. DA:O Qunari looked more human so it was harder to dehumanize them when their philosophy was the most alien thing about them. Turn them into a bunch of pale skinned, horn headed oxmen, though, and it’s easy to call them as just monsters. They’ve essentially become the orcs of the Dragon Age world.
But the darkspawn were ALREADY the orcs of the Dragon Age world.
Darkspawn got upgraded to Uruk-hai.
Maybe Seheron got really cold, and Qunari have similar properties to chocolate when you leave them in a freezer for too long.
is it just me or do hipsters simply dress in the same fashion as goths but with colours added?
From what I’ve seen it seems like the trickle-down evolution went Goths -> Emos -> Scene kids -> Hipsters
I read somewhere, not remembering where, but one excuse for the retcon could be that whoever is narrating the story in DO2 was exaggerating things. Like it was all a stylistic variation of the world as the narrator saw it. I’ve not played the game, so I’m not certain if that’s true/holds up.
Ahahah yeah, my boyfriend was saying he likes to pretend the Retconari are just a product of Varric’s lavish storytelling.
Eh, blame Bioware’s own retardation at not being able to follow their own plot.
You responded? My life somehow feels validated…. :3
Not much of a Retcon when they say they have Horns in the first DA game…
arent the horns not acctually there or something? i always thaught it was because of exaggeration in the story by the guy who is telling it.
That’s a valid point.
I mean, I took everything in the game with a grain of salt because it was Varrick – Mr. I-Tell-An-Exaggerated-Story – relaying the story to the Seekers. The only thing we know for sure is a) the Champion of Kirkwall defeated the Quinari, b) the Champion of Kirkwall got involved in the mage uprising c) Anders blew up the Chantry and d) the Champion of Kirkwall killed Meredith. Everything else could be embellished by Varrick, including things like the haunted mansion and Fenris’ life.
This is very off-topic, but I’ve been dying to ask you this for a long time. XD; It’s not a request or anything, more like a case of wondering whether or not my hope is misplaced.
Is there ANY chance of you featuring Gaston from Beauty and the Beast someday? @_@ He’s one of my fave Disney characters and he’s UBER manly.
To be fair. Now that he’s grown he eats five dozen eggs, so he’s roughly the size of a barge. leading one to believe that he may in fact, fit the bill.
this comic could use the piraka XD (another offtopic comment, by the way, nice making the arishok a nerd XP)
they are (manly) though (not human) but then again neither is sten or the big daddies XP, every manly being deserves a place, like master chief and other……characters i cant think of at the moment cause my brain hurts XDDDDD
How about minecraft guy?
thats just a tad too far, the mine craft guy is whoever you want it to be, so in a sense, it wouldent count as a valid character O_o
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipssssssssssssssttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Whatever, I liked this comic before it got famous anyway.
The only thing that could improve this comic would be Syndrome pressed against the glass in the last panel looking like he’s about to unleash his usual tirade.
I was actually disappointed kinda disappointed in the game. when i seen the trailer with male hawke engaging the arishok in battle (after getting over my shock on the differences for the qunari) i thought the whole storyline was going to be about a battle between the qunari and the humans but it was only half the story. It was mainly about the templars and the mages, i always tried to take the mages side but that always bite me in the but sooner or later in the game. Now i always take merediths side even though i know she is crazy from the artifact, but everything else was ok.
DUDE. I just stumbled across this comic whilst checking out the links over at TJ and Amal. How I lived this long without the pure awesomeness of this uber manly comic, I shall never know. Seriously, this is a brilliant idea.
Also, Hipster Arishok FTW. Much better than Hipster Cat.
Am I the only one who sees the irony in the comments here when compared to the comic? Tons of the comments can be boiled down to “I used to like the Qunari, but then they sold out and look all mainstream.” Just sayin’
Not really, even if you’re going to be completely obtuse and ignore all the valid points people have made explaining why they don’t think the new design was as effective as the original concept, “selling out” and “retroactive continuity” aren’t really the same thing.
I’m slightly confused here.
I have played all three versions of Origins: PC, 360, and PS3. While I did like Sten as a character, his model was absolutely HORRENDOUS. He looked incredibly overweight and his skintone was muddy. The only time that ingame-Sten looked good was when he was covered in armor so you couldn’t actually see him.
Now, CGI Sten, THAT was a badass looking mofo. Then again the majority of in-game character models looked like crap, so eh.
Just my two sense. Comparing CGI Sten to CGI Arishok, well I still personally side with Arishok, but I can see why people choose Sten. But in game (which is where you see them 99.9% of he time), it’s like comparing a decent painting to a pile of crap.
Mr. Fish crap no less.
On a lighter note, I just found this comic today, and I must say you ma’am are a genius. I haven’t laughed out loud so many times from comic before. Keep it up!
Personally I wouldn’t accept concept art as canon since it’s not finalized and subject to change at any moment.
I wouldn’t say in-game Sten looked like crap any more than all of Dragon age looked like crap with it’s low-res models and shiny textures on everything. He certainly wasn’t as supermodel handsome as strapping young sacred ashes trailer Sten was but I feel that just gives him more character. I’m not sure where you’re getting “overweight” from, as he had a pretty trim, muscular body. maybe thick about the waist, but still very muscular. It wouldn’t make sense for a grizzled soldier to have a tiny muscle beach waist, as that implies he’s a body sculptor rather than a warrior who came by his build through practical means.
That said, I don’t believe I said anything about trailer Sten VS in-game Arishok or vice versa, just general dark-skinned, armour-clad, cornrowed, hornless Qunari VS white skinned half-naked, Disney gargoyle Qunari with long flowing hair.
Yeah I probably misspoke on that one. The majority of the overweight feel to him is in the face. He looks pudgy, in my opinion. Like he had one too many of those cookies. Sten (the army rank, not the DA:O character) usually appeared armored. Not as heavily as Sten in juggernaut (sp) plating, but they still had armor.
The reason the Qunari mercs in Origins had normal armor is simply that. They were mercs. They’d abandoned the Qun, abandoned their homeland to live a life that isn’t normally condoned for their kind. If you’re going to abandon traditions, you might as well get upgraded gear as well. Same goes for the Origins Sten. Since he was traveling with the Warden and was stripped of his homeland gear, it makes sense that he’d just use what he could.
In essense the Qunari in Origins are only Qunari by race. They don’t follow the Qun, therefore they would dress different. As for the skin color, you got me there. I do like CGI-Sten’s color better, and that part doesn’t make much sense other than for retconning.
The horns I personally think look great. They add a certain barbarism that the original failed to do. For what was supposed to be such an intimidating race, Sten looked like just another face in the crowd. Though he was rall, there was really nothing distinguishable about him.
Same goes for the mercs. However, the fact that none of them have horns in the first is cause for continuity complaint, but all in all I don’t think the changes subtract from what the Qunari are. A race of highly complex barbarians. The archetypical “badass warrior” persona is better filled by the dwarves.
Personal opinions may and will differ :)
Everything they’ve told us in the games is diametrically opposed to the idea of Qunari being barbarians. They’re a militantly structured, highly organized, religiously disciplined intelligent, inventive culture. It doesn’t make sense for the “Militant islamic borg” as the writers refer to them to run around topless with their hair flowing free, which is INCREDIBLY impractical in combat. (And, you know, it’s not just the mercenaries who had armour. if you did Sten’s fade dream his whole party is metal to the teeth) I like the idea of the cornrows, because (like I said somewhere else in the comments) long hair is a luxury that is terribly useless on the battlefield, keeping it long and bound up is inconvenient to maintain, but makes it sort of a symbol of pride and discipline. Long flowing unbound hair just seems like a “derp derp yeah that’s cool” style choice. I like the DAO Kossith because they were original. Every fantasy story has it’s brand of burly horned things, no one had seven foot white-haired purple-eyed Turkish rain forest elves. And now Dragon Age doesn’t really either.
Long time lurker, first time poster, so on so forth.
I’ve just started playing DA:O (thanks to this comic, really) and…er, well this may be a noob question, but where can I get that armour Sten is wearing? Or is it something unique to Manly Guys?
It’s a simplified version of the armour he has in the concept art for the game. Since all the rest of the armour is interchangeable and not really unique to him, I used the concept armour for his street clothes and the brown tunic he wears in the cage when you find him for his hanging-out-around-the-house clothes.
Thanks a bunch for the response – appreciate it!
Now to dig up concept art…and try to repress the urge to stare moon-eyed at the big lunk as he recites the Prayers for the Dead.
No problem! And let me assist you in your search.
You know. I’m sure this has been said somewhere in the many -many- comments for your awesome comic, Coelasquid. And first time posting for me too! Woo! Anyway.
One theory that I think might be accurate, maybe a little, is that, well. Varric is the one telling the story, right? He’s giving all the details and saying everything. So maybe the Arishok did, in detail, explain the Qun to try and convert Hawke…but Varric can’t remember, or wasn’t around to hear about it, and thus, himself, doesn’t know, and so instead portrays the Arishok like that?
Just a theory.
I keep trying to figure out what it is that Commander wants to tell Sten about the Arishok, but I can’t think of anything beyond the fact that he’s pretentious. What’s worse is that I feel like I’m supposed to understand it, which just makes me feel like an idiot. Little help?
As for the horns and albino thing…I wouldn’t mind having both kinds of Qunari. I’ve always had a problem with fictional species that seem to have no diversity. If we can have black, white and coloured humans, why can’t we have Qunari with horns and without horns.
I’m just rambling, I actually know very little about Dragon Age, so I’m probably not qualified to comment.
1)He’s a hipster
2)Qunari were originally kind of like a Mayan/Turkish fusion race that comes from the rainforested areas, look kind of like giant tan elves, and have no horns. Now all the qunari are horned and white, and the dark skinned hornless ones are supposed to be “special snowflakes”, genetic anomalies bearing no resemblance to the way skin colours are distributed through human society.
Well, I guess genetic anomalies do happen, but if you ask me it would still be a lot more plausible to simple have different kinds of Qunari, explaining Sten’s different appearance away as a genetic anomaly just strikes me as lazy on the part of the designers. I will say that, if they do indeed come from a temperate climate as found in a rainforest, it does make very little sense for them to be white skinned.
Thanks for the info.
Well if you want to get really nerdy, the Arishok only handles the military aspects, not the religious parts.
My opinion won in this case. The horns are here to stay.
Nyah nyah nyah, so dah.
Now, was it your *opinion* that won, or a distant and completely unrelated decision by some professional video game developers? Because I don’t know if you’ve earned bragging rights yet for the latter, unless those developers were all you.
I was a little perplexed by the redesign decision myself, but it’s in the way I’m always confused by retroactive design or information changes. Like, you’ve already picked what you’re going with; is this change really gonna add to or detract from what we’ve already seen in any meaningful way?
I find two things wrong with this: 1. The arishok does not survive dragon age 2. and 2. Sten becomes arishok afterward and helps Alistair find his lost father.
Okay so the horns thing is not a retcon Sten is a beresaad a type of qunari that look enough like a human to work as an abassador in human lands
I’m just waiting for that awkward moment when Hipsters realize that they’re countering their own culture when enough of them “get into” something to make it mainstream.
…
And for everyone else who has ever been angered by a Hipster’s condescending arrogance, you now know what to say in response…
You’re welcome.