Because love functions on more than just a physical level. If they weren’t clicking on a mental and emotional level, then the physical connection they had would have been a shallow one at best.
Man, do I know what you mean, JT! They’re a lot of fun to party with; and then they move in and it’s time to get you both fitted for the “buckles-in-the-back.”
I agree. I got the impression that they were just incompatible, because the Commander was, well, the Commander, and she wouldn’t let him blow shit up and wrestle Canadian Guy.
Funny, I was under the impression he was just bullshitting Sarah because he didn’t want to open up about it. (Also, it’s really none of Sarah’s business, at least, when she asked. Now that they’re “officially” together, I think it’s a good time top bring it up again but this time, go to the ex and get her story.
Wow… I think going to the ex is kind of over the top and way more crazy than necessary. Also, considering Jonesy was helping Commander watch his kids and spent a lot of time with him even as a friend… no, it wasn’t her “business” but wanting to know about it is pretty damned understandable.
Okay, I would like to leave this little article here on the subject of “crazy” women. I found it quite thought provoking and I feel this point should be made before we continue with the subject of “crazy women”.
This is a great image that evokes her mental and physical strength that had probably attracted the Commander in the first place.
I just want to say, yes, women and men are different– but there are some people who should genuinely not be in relationships of the romantic type due to their own thoughts and beliefs on what that relationship should be like– one of the more blatant examples are those who physically or mentally (or emotionally) abuse their significant other(s). I honestly think we haven’t seen enough of this (beautiful) woman to judge properly if she’s ‘crazy’ crazy or just a normal woman, whom the Commander just didn’t deal well with (on /his/ end, rather than it being from her).
I was mostly commenting on the comic where the Commander takes a bunch of Big Daddies up to the SuckerPunch mental hospital. He said that a woman’s hotness is proportionate to their craziness, i.e. the super hot seductive ones like the one with pigtails is full-bore crazy.
I mean, that’s the comic that really pulled me off the fence into Squid fandom. I lived with the most sexy lady I’d ever seen, and after I married her, I discovered she was the most mentally insane lady I’d ever seen.
I don’t like the term ‘crazy’ in reference to abusive women because it dismisses her culpability in being abusive.
That article, however, is extremely dangerous. It dismisses the emotional reactions of people abused by women.
These statements:
“The form of gaslighting I’m addressing is not always pre-mediated or intentional, which makes it worse, because it means all of us, especially women, have dealt with it at one time or another.”
“It’s a whole lot easier to emotionally manipulate someone who has been conditioned by our society to accept it. We continue to burden women because they don’t refuse our burdens as easily. It’s the ultimate cowardice.”
Contribute to a system that actively marginalizes the victims of female-perpetrated abuse.
I am one.
My mother emotionally abused me(among other stuff that’s even more disturbing) by over-reacting and creating drama out of things I did or did not do (depending on her mood.) I would say things like ‘you’re over-reacting’ or ‘relax’ or ‘I’m trying to do what you tell me to do’ or ‘please stop, you’re hurting me’ until I basically went numb from the pain of it and realized nothing I said would make her stop.
That article was actively painful for me to read because I feel like I’m back being told that ‘my mother is the real victim’. This gendering of abuse has to stop.
My belief is that /anyone/ who abuses or actively seeks to harm another needs help– also known as “they ain’t right in the head.” This, of course, messes up the people they take it out on too.
Besides, there’s other types of people who shouldn’t be in a relationship aside from the abusive ones.
That’s a pretty sad story dude.
This man is making a good point and one that really needs to be considered, but you drive home the point that he is only drawing attention to a problem and his words should not be taken as inflexible instructions on how not to behave.
I don’t know if this absolves him from being so simplistic and one-sided in his argument, but it IS up to us to do the critical thinking and put together the things we know, i.e. abusive behavior is bad and should not be legitimized, with the things he’s reminding us of. His point is that a person’s feelings should not be out of hand dismissed by “gaslighting.” When the two tenets conflict we have to make the call.
There’s a current discussion going on among members of the APA about the present introduction of Dr. Robin Stein using the word “gaslighting” recently to define what is normally referred to as self-awareness degregation. She literally hijacked a word that was more frequently used to describe a form of intentional brainwashing. Cults use gaslighting, for instance.
Right now, her pro-feminist agenda seems to have sparked this debate. She’s got fans running around claiming that “gaslighting” can only exist in one direction – male to female. Which is incorrect. I do believe a colleague of mine asked Dr. Stein if she could elaborate so we can see it going both ways. She seemed like she was going to comment on it happening to either gender, and then she went on to say, “Gaslighting is usually the tactic of men on women, and rarely happens the other way.” Even though we have evidence it happens from to woman to man more commonly than she justifies it.
I usually don’t get into debates about psychology, because the problem with modern psychology and topics seems to be 10 years behind the curve with no consideration of all stimuli – including the Internet. But this has suddenly interested me, because I have now been trolled by four or five feminists on the Internet telling me that Dr. Stein is the absolute truth, and women cannot gaslight men (because it’s a male dominated world blah blah).
Sort version – LOL at Dr. Stein, thanks for giving behavioral extremists another false idea to latch onto so they can continue being “victims” of society.
I think the point is that it’s more institutionalized towards women. Remember that time they named excessive displays of emotion after “hystera”, the Greek word for uterus? And how early Western civilization attributed female discontentment to the idea that the womb dries up and drifts around your body, clotting things up if you haven’t been pregnant lately? And then how variations of that idea were championed by medical professionals right into the 1900’s, the suggested cures for which were basically “she needs to get laid” or “lock her up in solitary confinement”. And how physicians developed a 75-page comprehensive list of signs the women in your life are suffering from hysteria, including symptoms such as “irritability”, “fatigue”, “loss of appetite”, or “lack of sexual desire”, giving the man of the house a free pass to lock up his wife without any kind of mental stimulation in the event that she’s tired and doesn’t want to have sex with him?
Of course this isn’t the case anymore, but you have to admit, some 2000 years Western medicine declaring any woman behaving emotional, despondent, or fatigued is only acting that way because she’s got uterus madness leaves a wide window of opportunity for those sentiments to become ingrained in society.
Sure it can go both ways, anyone can turn up their nose at any other person’s problems, but there’s a pretty strong historical precedent for this kind of thing that some people out there still haven’t totally let go of.
Saying that ye olden times doctors believed crazy things about mental illness has nothing to do with who does what today. Using it as way of minimizing male victims of gaslighting is… well it seems indefensible.
I mean, women don’t like ‘wimmins be crazy’ in response to the insanity of a few of our number; how is it any more justified to tar men with the same brush based on the actions of *men who aren’t even alive anymore.*
There is also huge social pressure against men showing emotions and having their emotions dismissed as not just hysteria but something that actively negates their gender identity.
Calls to ‘man up’ and ‘be a man’ in response to men’s emotions are a uniquely male-targeted form of gaslighting.
I’m not saying it minimizes their issues, I’m just saying there has been a strong precedent for writing off any kind of emotional display a woman might have as some sort of malady. Nowhere did I say “this undermines the situation when it happens to men” just offering up a reason for why people are more aware of it happening to women. Claiming that what people thought back in the day for thousands of years has no bearing on what people think now is kind of like saying “slavery was abolished in the 1800’s, it has no lasting effects on racism today”
“I’m not saying it minimizes their issues, I’m just saying there has been a strong precedent for writing off any kind of emotional display a woman might have as some sort of malady.”
I’m pretty sure this is incorrect. What happened was that doctors associated women’s mental illness(not every emotion they displayed) with aspects of their sexual physiology.
This happened to men too. At some point a propensity towards masturbation, adultery, miscegenation and other ‘sexual-social’ ills was seen as a result of mental infirmity and could be cured by cutting off men’s foreskins.
I lost him at “Gaslighting is not always premeditated.” Um yes it is. Gaslighting is the art of making someone think they’re crazy. You have to plan this, figure out their mental weaknesses, decide how you’re going to enact those plans.
What he’s talking about is not Gaslighting, it’s just tearing someone down and humiliating them so they feel like less of a person. Dated a woman who tried that, the key being tried since she couldn’t get anywhere. I hate this self loathing apologizing to someone on the behalf of horrible some other group garbage. Some men are jerks that call women crazy, and some women are in fact crazy. Deal with it current conscience.
Alright, this is going to make me look like a ghoul but the reality is, just because you were abused, doesn’t mean your abuser wasn’t abused herself. I find it a little disturbing that you have to be the only “victim” in this scenario and that you feel uncomfortable with the very possibility that “Hey, mom might have had a reason for what she did.”
Understand that her having a reason, does not shield her from responsibility or blame, it just explains it. She can still be held accountable for the act and its affect on you/your psyche since she was the source of your anguish.
” this is going to make me look like a ghoul but the reality is”
You’re right. It does.
“I find it a little disturbing that you have to be the only “victim” in this scenario.”
… Right. Not sure where I said that.
““Hey, mom might have had a reason for what she did.””
…
Actually I’m glad you posted because a lot of people disbelieve men when I tell them if I talk about the abuse my mother put me through there’s always someone who has to try to shift it back into their comfort zone by ‘explaining or blaming it away.’
This article disturbs me in many ways, especially in its constant assertion that men dont “gaslight” men (which is incredibly false), and the implication that women dont do it men (which is just as false). It also implies that any mans criticism of a women’s action is abuse, and as such, could be used in a women’s emotional manipulation of a man. The closing argument is a strong statement about breaking the cycle of abuse, but taken in context with the rest of the article, it becomes incredibly twisted, includes a gross generalization, and doesn’t really address how men are conditioned to not show there emotions. I’m not a psychologist, but It makes sense to me that being conditioned to not show your emotions would make you impatient with those that do (which perpetuates the cycle). In short, this article is biased, incredibly one sided; and does very little to actually address the cycle of abuse. I do feel it raises a good point about making a judgement about how someone should feel, though.
Ohhh i forgot women gaslighting women. I have several female friends who perfer to hang out with men over women expressly because men are far less likely to indulge in that sort of manipulative behavior.
I found that article vaguely disturbing, and it became much moreso when I started reading the discussion in the comments. Any posts that weren’t perfectly in line with the author were viciously sniped at by the article author and one or two other posters, claiming that they had no clue what they were talking about, or similar arguments. I think that qualifies as staggering levels of irony, right there.
Mainly because that whole site has a feminist slant. Don’t get me wrong, women’s rights are great, I believe we’ll be better off when women and men have equal rights, but feminism is so damned mixed up and factionalized it’s ridiculous. You get the women that are fighting the fight for equal rights, then the ones that want to reverse the weight and have men as second hand citizens, and even some that want to clone sperm and kill men outright.
With a group so at war with itself, that is what happens.
Any group who stands for anything is mixed up and factionalized. Just like you have feminists who cross the line into misandry there are men fighting for father’s rights in divorce cases and try to raise awareness for domestic abuse towards men, there are also guys fighting for men’s rights who openly declare they believe every woman who gets raped deserves it, that women were biologically designed to be gang raped, that women can only expect their significant others to respect them if they behave more like dogs (man’s best friend and all, and yep I’ve totally heard this one delivered seriously as an honest criticism of women).
Any issue at all is going to have different people who feel differently about it. This doesn’t just include gender-related issues, or even political ones. Does every Catholic denounce birth control? Is every Native American content with a cash settlement as means of compensation for their history with the Europeans? Does every suburbanite want to restrict bus access to residential neighbourhoods? Does every resident of Quebec want the province to separate from Canada? Is every vegetarian a die-hard vegan who actively tries to pick fights with people they see consuming animal products? Does every Republican believe Obama wasn’t born in this country? Does every environmentalist want to commit acts of eco-terrorism? Any time there is room for people to look at a subject from different sides, there are going to be people who disagree. This isn’t a quality unique to “feminism”.
Sadly you’re right. Every group has that issue. Sometimes it’s healthy keeps the ideas flowing. Most of the times it just splinters things. Too bad feminism suffers from it, because like I said, women’s rights are a great thing and we’ll all be better off when it’s equal.
Plenty of people criticize parts of feminism, including other feminists. The people making the claims that are being refuted may cry misogyny because they’re in a corner and don’t really have a good answer, but it isn’t any different from people disagreeing with certain MRA supporters being declared Misandrists in lieu of polite conversation. Like I said before, any issue is going to be split and factionalized into people who want to see the matter through to different ends. And not all of those people are going to have reasonable responses when they get their teeth into something.
I’ve gotten the full range of online venom spat at me for playing devils advocate or making fun of one thing or another. I’ve been a slut-shaming misogynist for raising issue with the way women are portrayed in superhero comics which simultaneously made me a sissy-shaming homophobe for suggesting that it would be silly to see well-known superdudes fighting crime with similar states of undress and body language, I’ve been a misandrist for drawing a comic that makes fun of how over-the-top macho action heroes are, a misogynist for spotlighting positive aspects of masculinity, a misogynist and misandrist simultaneously for drawing a humour strip that more often than not focuses on male characters. Plenty of accusations of sissy-shaming and femme-hating for everything from the subject of the comic to the line on the about page saying “I’m not on board with telling men they should act less like men”, while plenty of others saying I’m tearing down men for the same reasons.
But for every message I get telling me I’m the scum of the earth, I get five more from dads or soldiers or mma fighters or bodybuilders or anime fangirls or gay guys or transgendered folks or people from whatever walk of life saying that the comic really brightens up their day. I’ve just accepted that this is the internet, and it’s no trouble finding people rallying under any social banner with an axe to grind. Can’t take it too personally.
Well, there is one big difference between MRA and feminist sites.
MRA sites are usually far less moderated then feminist sites. On feminist sites, what’s really creepy is that the misandrous stuff really is considered acceptable by the mods and bloggers. Often posting a contrary opinion, no matter how polite and reasoned, gets ban-hammered while a frothing rant by an obvious hate-stimmer remains untouched. As long as it’s directed at acceptable targets.
Having said that I have stopped reading certain sites when the misogyny got so thick you could harvest it with a scythe.
Oh, yeah… sorry to hear about your troubles regarding people with an axe to grind.
Your work is great and it’s nice to see an actual competent male character who is, above all, a good father.
Some unsolicited advice… The next time you post something on fathers’s rights (if you do), you might want to link to fathers and families rather then stand your ground. Stand your ground is… rather intense for people new to the concept of men’s rights.
I think the problem is you’re looking at “feminism” which isn’t actually real feminism. Because of the hate and anger a lot of people display under that banner I prefer to refer to myself as a gender equalist. The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of double standards no matter what side you’re on but people only pay attention to double standards on the side they’re *not* on.
I’ve been pondering calling myself a feminist(since some people call me that already anyway) and referring to my problems with feminism as a feminist critique of feminism.
Good article. A lot of people are being incredibly defensive about it, despite the fact that the author never says men are exempt from this phenomenon. He only rightly points out how it’s very often used to trivialize women, to the point where it’s damaging and internalized.
God it’s sad that anything even remotely criticial of ingrained sexism tends gets this knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people.
As a side note… with the underpainting, what kind of brush were you making?
I know you’re busy as hell but an art tutorial would be aaaaaaaaaawwesome at some point! I’m going to be going to school for Media Arts & Animation. :D
I don’t know why…if she’s anywhere near a DD or above this is pretty much what they’d look like in a corsette…just sayin’. They’d spill over a lil’ bit.
It doesn’t seem to me as though the lady was abusive, and the children seem quite happy and healthy. The two seem to be in joint custody and not fussing over things. The ex doesn’t even seem to harp on the Commander. Perhaps a manly man does not have to ruin either himself or the woman he is involved with. Perhaps the woman doesn’t have to ruin herself or her husband. Certainly a manly man (in this story) does not dump his kids just because he and their mother divorced.
I like how all the posts in this thread either hit on a thought provoking conversations on abusive relationships and “crazy” women, and the others are all “ooh sexy lady!”
On that note however: Ooooh, sexy redhead! *drools*
Well, how do I put this. I really love your artwork and when it comes to drawing manly man no one could say youre wrong, but… her boobs look fake. Either that, or not drawn the way real Boobs fall, not even in such a corset. You see, the upper line of breats can never look like a tennis ball, only if there are implants or she has really swollen breasts (maternity?). I caught a nice Exaple of how breasts react when they are pushed up, and mostly it looks like this: http://www.imagesload.net/showimage&34659 (its no sexual content, have no worries)
Thats one explanation i created for a friend who started drawing anatomy and was doing well, but did the same way of breast. http://www.imagesload.net/img/brust.png Sorry that its in german and its just a sketch with m really not so good drawing skills >_____< but maybe (just maybe) I was… some kind of helpful… I just dont know .___.
Keep up the good work! *takes a trip to an unknown place in fear of furious fan rage*
Have you ever seen boobs in a corset? Apparently not. Also, notice that they’re slightly spilling out the side and aren’t perfectly smooth because the cup size is slightly small for her. Smaller cup size can further enhance boobs and make them look supernatural.
Your example is for when the breasts are naked. There are a lot of devices that can change the way even natural breasts look. Trust me, I wear one every day.
Hmm… additionally, depending on a person’s frame boobs can be closer together or further apart. Usually, the skinnier they are the further apart they are, though there is a limit on both that and how close they are.
Well, i have seen them, because I am a girl (D-Cup) und wore (well, is that written right?) some corsets from time to time. I saw many breasts iin my life and i can only remember one girl who had naturally round breasts like that, but i still doubt they would have looked that way. I still find it very unnatural :X and you cut the image at the wrong part, i mean the upper rounding that can be found right over the boobs and is cut away here D: Still, I dont want to make a big drama out of this. But its a little bit offensive to automaticly asume that someone has never seen breasts because he or she mentions something he or she found somehow unnatural :X And yeah… Star Trek corset *__*
It wasn’t my intent to say that you’ve never seen boobs, so much as you’ve seen a very limited amount of boobs in corsets. The general style of corsets is to push them up and in, creating a spherical look that does indeed -seem- to defy gravity. Seriously, do a google image search for corsets and you’ll see the large part of boobs acting like this drawing instead of the corset image you linked. I think the example you gave actually shows where the corset wasn’t tightened enough because her boobs are essentially just a shelf. That or she has gigantic boobs.
Also… the biggest reason for the pushup here aside from the corset is the fact that the *cup* is clearly slightly smaller for her, which you can again see by where it’s pushing up along the edge of the boobs and not fitting properly.
I wish that I could say the Star Trek corset’s me and that I own it… that was just the coolest example I immediately saw when I did an image search myself. :(
One other small comment, just for reference, the example photograph you provided, the model definitely didn’t have the corset properly tightened and that will alter how it makes the body look. Ideally one should get a corset one size smaller than their measurements if they are going for a true tightly squeezed authentic look. The corset should press the breasts tightly to the chest which would give them that round apple look, if they lie flat like a shelf then the corset is not tight enough or too big.
I had a gf who had a corset with too small a cup (she was a 36DD). Her boobs looked alot like the Commader’s wife. Come to think of it, it was almost exactly that corset, colors and everything.
One possibility that I haven’t seen anyone hit on yet is that maybe Madeline couldn’t handle the Commander’s job. It’s been proven that he actually IS a time traveling soldier, and he’s said that he’s still considered active duty and gets called to fight from time to time (When he and Jonesy were in the coffee shop), not to mention that he runs an agency full of dangerous borderline psychopaths that might snap and kill him some day. Maybe she couldn’t take wondering each day when he left if he’d come home alive. Plenty of loving relationships have ended because of that.
I don’t know why people are still speculating this when the reason for their divorce was said canonically in the comic… It’s not like there’s a huge archive either. :|
MANLINESS! Do you have what it takes to be manly in this day and age?! Well, do ya, punk?!
We don’t just mean plain old “macho”, weaklings! You’re on the Internet now, where the truly manly men eat dinosaur bones and razor blades for breakfast, brush their teeth with angle grinders, catch bullets with their furrowed brows, strangle rhinoceroses with their mustaches, communicate exclusively with their fists, eat iron and shit a chain
,juggle live helicopters, sneeze meteors and belch tornadoes!
That woman may have weight, but she knows how to work it. I wish I had her confidence. Or at least more willpower… Then I wouldn’t have to worry about my circumference every time I succumb to the urge to bake something. Freaking new years resolution has backfired on me… I promise myself I can eat as much dessert as I like, provided I make it myself rather than buy it… next thing I know, I have an enormous recipe book, extra poundage, am enthusiastically looking for new exotic cookies to try next, and am entertaining the thought of buying me an ice cream machine…
You know it’s a sure fire sign that I’ve been affected by games when the first thing I think of when I look at this is “Hey! Two upside down pokeballs!…oh wait”
Ah, her Pillow Fighting League uniform I presume?
A real woman. I like it.
Gotta love those curves and the ginger hair, sexy as hell. xD
You find hell attractive?! :O!!!
Haha, still, nice picture.
I’m into some kinky stuff, all right? >,,>
There is no torture that man won’t eventually fetishize. Hell would eventually be very sexy.
Okay then to Heaven you go.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Agreed dont knock Sadomasochism til you try it.
…Spiderman.
I’d tap that!
I still wonder why the Commander can be satisfied with that plain Jane of Jones after THIS !
Because love functions on more than just a physical level. If they weren’t clicking on a mental and emotional level, then the physical connection they had would have been a shallow one at best.
NoJokeChicken.jpg
Abusively crazy is only sexy until you have to live with it, that’s why. Take it from someone who’s lived with it.
Now… put her in a straitjacket and we have something that could be beautiful. rawr.
Man, do I know what you mean, JT! They’re a lot of fun to party with; and then they move in and it’s time to get you both fitted for the “buckles-in-the-back.”
Except she isn’t abusively crazy…
…As far as we know.
I’m pretty sure Commander would have mentioned that when Jonesy asked why they divorced if that was the case.
I agree. I got the impression that they were just incompatible, because the Commander was, well, the Commander, and she wouldn’t let him blow shit up and wrestle Canadian Guy.
@Misguidance: Where is the damn like button
Refusing to let a manly man wrestle IS abuse!!
Wasn’t that his EXACT reason? I feel like I’ve heard that line before.
Funny, I was under the impression he was just bullshitting Sarah because he didn’t want to open up about it. (Also, it’s really none of Sarah’s business, at least, when she asked. Now that they’re “officially” together, I think it’s a good time top bring it up again but this time, go to the ex and get her story.
Wow… I think going to the ex is kind of over the top and way more crazy than necessary. Also, considering Jonesy was helping Commander watch his kids and spent a lot of time with him even as a friend… no, it wasn’t her “business” but wanting to know about it is pretty damned understandable.
So now we know what the Commander meant by the correlation between hotness and craziness.
Dem Freckles….
Dat Hair…
HHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
Definitely a woman worth traveling through time for.
yep.
i have an erection.
A divorce seems justified if she looks like that. All the really hot ones are crazy… as are all the really ugly ones. XD
Hence the Ancient Chinese proverb: “Bitches be crazy.”
So you too have read the poetry of Daisuke Miyamoto?
Nice to actually see a picture in the RSS feed! I hope this becomes a regularity.
Well it is no comic, but I like it all the same. Looks like she would be a fun time.
Compromise accepted.
Freckles…… Mm.
Ha, she’s quite the looker. Kudos for a job well done.
wow. that’s some kind of… crazy. :D Nicely done ‘Squid!
I would hurt somebody for that hair. Wow.
Now that’s my kind of woman! <3
Hubba hubba
Okay, I would like to leave this little article here on the subject of “crazy” women. I found it quite thought provoking and I feel this point should be made before we continue with the subject of “crazy women”.
This is a great image that evokes her mental and physical strength that had probably attracted the Commander in the first place.
I just want to say, yes, women and men are different– but there are some people who should genuinely not be in relationships of the romantic type due to their own thoughts and beliefs on what that relationship should be like– one of the more blatant examples are those who physically or mentally (or emotionally) abuse their significant other(s). I honestly think we haven’t seen enough of this (beautiful) woman to judge properly if she’s ‘crazy’ crazy or just a normal woman, whom the Commander just didn’t deal well with (on /his/ end, rather than it being from her).
I was mostly commenting on the comic where the Commander takes a bunch of Big Daddies up to the SuckerPunch mental hospital. He said that a woman’s hotness is proportionate to their craziness, i.e. the super hot seductive ones like the one with pigtails is full-bore crazy.
I mean, that’s the comic that really pulled me off the fence into Squid fandom. I lived with the most sexy lady I’d ever seen, and after I married her, I discovered she was the most mentally insane lady I’d ever seen.
I don’t like the term ‘crazy’ in reference to abusive women because it dismisses her culpability in being abusive.
That article, however, is extremely dangerous. It dismisses the emotional reactions of people abused by women.
These statements:
“The form of gaslighting I’m addressing is not always pre-mediated or intentional, which makes it worse, because it means all of us, especially women, have dealt with it at one time or another.”
“It’s a whole lot easier to emotionally manipulate someone who has been conditioned by our society to accept it. We continue to burden women because they don’t refuse our burdens as easily. It’s the ultimate cowardice.”
Contribute to a system that actively marginalizes the victims of female-perpetrated abuse.
I am one.
My mother emotionally abused me(among other stuff that’s even more disturbing) by over-reacting and creating drama out of things I did or did not do (depending on her mood.) I would say things like ‘you’re over-reacting’ or ‘relax’ or ‘I’m trying to do what you tell me to do’ or ‘please stop, you’re hurting me’ until I basically went numb from the pain of it and realized nothing I said would make her stop.
That article was actively painful for me to read because I feel like I’m back being told that ‘my mother is the real victim’. This gendering of abuse has to stop.
My belief is that /anyone/ who abuses or actively seeks to harm another needs help– also known as “they ain’t right in the head.” This, of course, messes up the people they take it out on too.
Besides, there’s other types of people who shouldn’t be in a relationship aside from the abusive ones.
there’s also other types of crazy other than abusive.
That’s a pretty sad story dude.
This man is making a good point and one that really needs to be considered, but you drive home the point that he is only drawing attention to a problem and his words should not be taken as inflexible instructions on how not to behave.
I don’t know if this absolves him from being so simplistic and one-sided in his argument, but it IS up to us to do the critical thinking and put together the things we know, i.e. abusive behavior is bad and should not be legitimized, with the things he’s reminding us of. His point is that a person’s feelings should not be out of hand dismissed by “gaslighting.” When the two tenets conflict we have to make the call.
I’m a woman.
“His point is that a person’s feelings should not be out of hand dismissed by “gaslighting.””
He could have made that point without making abuse gendered. But he went there and I felt compelled to comment.
Noted, dudette.
And I’m glad you did share your comment, though I’m sorry you had to deal with that
You’re right, he was heavy handed and he didn’t take the time to look at reversed or alternative situations when he made his point.
No need to feel sorry. But thanks for your sympathies.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Manly Men…
There’s a current discussion going on among members of the APA about the present introduction of Dr. Robin Stein using the word “gaslighting” recently to define what is normally referred to as self-awareness degregation. She literally hijacked a word that was more frequently used to describe a form of intentional brainwashing. Cults use gaslighting, for instance.
Right now, her pro-feminist agenda seems to have sparked this debate. She’s got fans running around claiming that “gaslighting” can only exist in one direction – male to female. Which is incorrect. I do believe a colleague of mine asked Dr. Stein if she could elaborate so we can see it going both ways. She seemed like she was going to comment on it happening to either gender, and then she went on to say, “Gaslighting is usually the tactic of men on women, and rarely happens the other way.” Even though we have evidence it happens from to woman to man more commonly than she justifies it.
I usually don’t get into debates about psychology, because the problem with modern psychology and topics seems to be 10 years behind the curve with no consideration of all stimuli – including the Internet. But this has suddenly interested me, because I have now been trolled by four or five feminists on the Internet telling me that Dr. Stein is the absolute truth, and women cannot gaslight men (because it’s a male dominated world blah blah).
Sort version – LOL at Dr. Stein, thanks for giving behavioral extremists another false idea to latch onto so they can continue being “victims” of society.
I think the point is that it’s more institutionalized towards women. Remember that time they named excessive displays of emotion after “hystera”, the Greek word for uterus? And how early Western civilization attributed female discontentment to the idea that the womb dries up and drifts around your body, clotting things up if you haven’t been pregnant lately? And then how variations of that idea were championed by medical professionals right into the 1900’s, the suggested cures for which were basically “she needs to get laid” or “lock her up in solitary confinement”. And how physicians developed a 75-page comprehensive list of signs the women in your life are suffering from hysteria, including symptoms such as “irritability”, “fatigue”, “loss of appetite”, or “lack of sexual desire”, giving the man of the house a free pass to lock up his wife without any kind of mental stimulation in the event that she’s tired and doesn’t want to have sex with him?
Of course this isn’t the case anymore, but you have to admit, some 2000 years Western medicine declaring any woman behaving emotional, despondent, or fatigued is only acting that way because she’s got uterus madness leaves a wide window of opportunity for those sentiments to become ingrained in society.
Sure it can go both ways, anyone can turn up their nose at any other person’s problems, but there’s a pretty strong historical precedent for this kind of thing that some people out there still haven’t totally let go of.
Saying that ye olden times doctors believed crazy things about mental illness has nothing to do with who does what today. Using it as way of minimizing male victims of gaslighting is… well it seems indefensible.
I mean, women don’t like ‘wimmins be crazy’ in response to the insanity of a few of our number; how is it any more justified to tar men with the same brush based on the actions of *men who aren’t even alive anymore.*
There is also huge social pressure against men showing emotions and having their emotions dismissed as not just hysteria but something that actively negates their gender identity.
Calls to ‘man up’ and ‘be a man’ in response to men’s emotions are a uniquely male-targeted form of gaslighting.
I’m not saying it minimizes their issues, I’m just saying there has been a strong precedent for writing off any kind of emotional display a woman might have as some sort of malady. Nowhere did I say “this undermines the situation when it happens to men” just offering up a reason for why people are more aware of it happening to women. Claiming that what people thought back in the day for thousands of years has no bearing on what people think now is kind of like saying “slavery was abolished in the 1800’s, it has no lasting effects on racism today”
“I’m not saying it minimizes their issues, I’m just saying there has been a strong precedent for writing off any kind of emotional display a woman might have as some sort of malady.”
I’m pretty sure this is incorrect. What happened was that doctors associated women’s mental illness(not every emotion they displayed) with aspects of their sexual physiology.
This happened to men too. At some point a propensity towards masturbation, adultery, miscegenation and other ‘sexual-social’ ills was seen as a result of mental infirmity and could be cured by cutting off men’s foreskins.
I lost him at “Gaslighting is not always premeditated.” Um yes it is. Gaslighting is the art of making someone think they’re crazy. You have to plan this, figure out their mental weaknesses, decide how you’re going to enact those plans.
What he’s talking about is not Gaslighting, it’s just tearing someone down and humiliating them so they feel like less of a person. Dated a woman who tried that, the key being tried since she couldn’t get anywhere. I hate this self loathing apologizing to someone on the behalf of horrible some other group garbage. Some men are jerks that call women crazy, and some women are in fact crazy. Deal with it current conscience.
I only wish people would stop soft pedalling abusive women behind the label ‘crazy.’
Abusive women are abusive, not crazy. They may be crazy-making but that’s another issue entirely.
Alright, this is going to make me look like a ghoul but the reality is, just because you were abused, doesn’t mean your abuser wasn’t abused herself. I find it a little disturbing that you have to be the only “victim” in this scenario and that you feel uncomfortable with the very possibility that “Hey, mom might have had a reason for what she did.”
Understand that her having a reason, does not shield her from responsibility or blame, it just explains it. She can still be held accountable for the act and its affect on you/your psyche since she was the source of your anguish.
” this is going to make me look like a ghoul but the reality is”
You’re right. It does.
“I find it a little disturbing that you have to be the only “victim” in this scenario.”
… Right. Not sure where I said that.
““Hey, mom might have had a reason for what she did.””
…
Actually I’m glad you posted because a lot of people disbelieve men when I tell them if I talk about the abuse my mother put me through there’s always someone who has to try to shift it back into their comfort zone by ‘explaining or blaming it away.’
Saving this one.
Unless you were trying to demonstrate ‘gaslighting’, in which case bravo.
Sinister but, you know, very well done.
I don’t really usually post on these things, but when I read your post I realized someone understood what I still can’t really talk about.
Thanks, and I’m sorry you had to go through what you did.
So yeah…sorry & thanks.
Glad to help. I was feeling bad about derailing the discussion thread but at least if you were helped by it, then it was worth it.
:)
I love the fact that this comic regularly has readers who are willing to engage in actual intellectual conversation!
How did this conversation spring up from a picture of a beautiful redhead?
This article disturbs me in many ways, especially in its constant assertion that men dont “gaslight” men (which is incredibly false), and the implication that women dont do it men (which is just as false). It also implies that any mans criticism of a women’s action is abuse, and as such, could be used in a women’s emotional manipulation of a man. The closing argument is a strong statement about breaking the cycle of abuse, but taken in context with the rest of the article, it becomes incredibly twisted, includes a gross generalization, and doesn’t really address how men are conditioned to not show there emotions. I’m not a psychologist, but It makes sense to me that being conditioned to not show your emotions would make you impatient with those that do (which perpetuates the cycle). In short, this article is biased, incredibly one sided; and does very little to actually address the cycle of abuse. I do feel it raises a good point about making a judgement about how someone should feel, though.
Of course, that is just my opinion. :)
I just read the top reaction to the article, and it address whats wrong with it much better then i did.
Ohhh i forgot women gaslighting women. I have several female friends who perfer to hang out with men over women expressly because men are far less likely to indulge in that sort of manipulative behavior.
I found that article vaguely disturbing, and it became much moreso when I started reading the discussion in the comments. Any posts that weren’t perfectly in line with the author were viciously sniped at by the article author and one or two other posters, claiming that they had no clue what they were talking about, or similar arguments. I think that qualifies as staggering levels of irony, right there.
Mainly because that whole site has a feminist slant. Don’t get me wrong, women’s rights are great, I believe we’ll be better off when women and men have equal rights, but feminism is so damned mixed up and factionalized it’s ridiculous. You get the women that are fighting the fight for equal rights, then the ones that want to reverse the weight and have men as second hand citizens, and even some that want to clone sperm and kill men outright.
With a group so at war with itself, that is what happens.
Any group who stands for anything is mixed up and factionalized. Just like you have feminists who cross the line into misandry there are men fighting for father’s rights in divorce cases and try to raise awareness for domestic abuse towards men, there are also guys fighting for men’s rights who openly declare they believe every woman who gets raped deserves it, that women were biologically designed to be gang raped, that women can only expect their significant others to respect them if they behave more like dogs (man’s best friend and all, and yep I’ve totally heard this one delivered seriously as an honest criticism of women).
Any issue at all is going to have different people who feel differently about it. This doesn’t just include gender-related issues, or even political ones. Does every Catholic denounce birth control? Is every Native American content with a cash settlement as means of compensation for their history with the Europeans? Does every suburbanite want to restrict bus access to residential neighbourhoods? Does every resident of Quebec want the province to separate from Canada? Is every vegetarian a die-hard vegan who actively tries to pick fights with people they see consuming animal products? Does every Republican believe Obama wasn’t born in this country? Does every environmentalist want to commit acts of eco-terrorism? Any time there is room for people to look at a subject from different sides, there are going to be people who disagree. This isn’t a quality unique to “feminism”.
Sadly you’re right. Every group has that issue. Sometimes it’s healthy keeps the ideas flowing. Most of the times it just splinters things. Too bad feminism suffers from it, because like I said, women’s rights are a great thing and we’ll all be better off when it’s equal.
My main beef with feminism is that if you criticize any part of it you’re labeled a misogynist.
The instant any philosophy or movement or ideology becomes above criticism is the instant that it turns to the dark side.
Plenty of people criticize parts of feminism, including other feminists. The people making the claims that are being refuted may cry misogyny because they’re in a corner and don’t really have a good answer, but it isn’t any different from people disagreeing with certain MRA supporters being declared Misandrists in lieu of polite conversation. Like I said before, any issue is going to be split and factionalized into people who want to see the matter through to different ends. And not all of those people are going to have reasonable responses when they get their teeth into something.
I’ve gotten the full range of online venom spat at me for playing devils advocate or making fun of one thing or another. I’ve been a slut-shaming misogynist for raising issue with the way women are portrayed in superhero comics which simultaneously made me a sissy-shaming homophobe for suggesting that it would be silly to see well-known superdudes fighting crime with similar states of undress and body language, I’ve been a misandrist for drawing a comic that makes fun of how over-the-top macho action heroes are, a misogynist for spotlighting positive aspects of masculinity, a misogynist and misandrist simultaneously for drawing a humour strip that more often than not focuses on male characters. Plenty of accusations of sissy-shaming and femme-hating for everything from the subject of the comic to the line on the about page saying “I’m not on board with telling men they should act less like men”, while plenty of others saying I’m tearing down men for the same reasons.
But for every message I get telling me I’m the scum of the earth, I get five more from dads or soldiers or mma fighters or bodybuilders or anime fangirls or gay guys or transgendered folks or people from whatever walk of life saying that the comic really brightens up their day. I’ve just accepted that this is the internet, and it’s no trouble finding people rallying under any social banner with an axe to grind. Can’t take it too personally.
Well, there is one big difference between MRA and feminist sites.
MRA sites are usually far less moderated then feminist sites. On feminist sites, what’s really creepy is that the misandrous stuff really is considered acceptable by the mods and bloggers. Often posting a contrary opinion, no matter how polite and reasoned, gets ban-hammered while a frothing rant by an obvious hate-stimmer remains untouched. As long as it’s directed at acceptable targets.
Having said that I have stopped reading certain sites when the misogyny got so thick you could harvest it with a scythe.
Oh, yeah… sorry to hear about your troubles regarding people with an axe to grind.
Your work is great and it’s nice to see an actual competent male character who is, above all, a good father.
Some unsolicited advice… The next time you post something on fathers’s rights (if you do), you might want to link to fathers and families rather then stand your ground. Stand your ground is… rather intense for people new to the concept of men’s rights.
I think the problem is you’re looking at “feminism” which isn’t actually real feminism. Because of the hate and anger a lot of people display under that banner I prefer to refer to myself as a gender equalist. The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of double standards no matter what side you’re on but people only pay attention to double standards on the side they’re *not* on.
I’ve been pondering calling myself a feminist(since some people call me that already anyway) and referring to my problems with feminism as a feminist critique of feminism.
Good article. A lot of people are being incredibly defensive about it, despite the fact that the author never says men are exempt from this phenomenon. He only rightly points out how it’s very often used to trivialize women, to the point where it’s damaging and internalized.
God it’s sad that anything even remotely criticial of ingrained sexism tends gets this knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people.
Happy Birthday Squiddy!
…I know it’s not your birthday yet, but it is in Australia! So Happy Birthday from the future, I guess.
Oh gosh, seriously? If so, happy bday Coela! Mine was Saturday…I’ll eat a piece of leftover cake in your honor tonight. It has Star Wars stuff on it.
Nothing like some hot-crazy fanservice, falling firmly on the Vicky Mendoza diagonal :D
Awww, Coela, you shouldn’t have! :D
hibby
I like that she is not wearing high heels. This is a cool pic, love the style!
amen
God bless Fanservice.
Can we have some nice hot Commander beefcake too? :)
oh sweet lord, im gone for a couple of weeks and then POW!!!
SEXY GINGER WOMEN!!!!!
awesome job as always!
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
ow.
She is one tan ginger…
that’s just the purple underpainting.
Ahh. Well I <3 redheads and I <3 purple, so I'm down with that.
As a side note… with the underpainting, what kind of brush were you making?
I know you’re busy as hell but an art tutorial would be aaaaaaaaaawwesome at some point! I’m going to be going to school for Media Arts & Animation. :D
*using
switched the brushes to dry media and used the fourth one.
Aha…
Happy Birthday!!!!
This looks like a picture Commander would have kept somewhere private for his personal viewing pleasure.
As long as its not on his phone, hopefully he learned from Scarlett Johannsens mistake.
Justifying a late comic by posting slightly pornographic material…
Yes… This will do.
What are her measurements?
@TheOffender
Her measurements would be
AWWWWWWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
I was hoping for a more exact figure. To go with her very nice figure.
I am loving the fan service. I gotta say, she is my type.
These boobs creep me out. :(
I don’t know why…if she’s anywhere near a DD or above this is pretty much what they’d look like in a corsette…just sayin’. They’d spill over a lil’ bit.
Looks exactly like my wife, even the outfit matches
You are an incredibly lucky bastard and I hate you. *green-eyed seethe*
I am so dangerously in love…
It doesn’t seem to me as though the lady was abusive, and the children seem quite happy and healthy. The two seem to be in joint custody and not fussing over things. The ex doesn’t even seem to harp on the Commander. Perhaps a manly man does not have to ruin either himself or the woman he is involved with. Perhaps the woman doesn’t have to ruin herself or her husband. Certainly a manly man (in this story) does not dump his kids just because he and their mother divorced.
I like how all the posts in this thread either hit on a thought provoking conversations on abusive relationships and “crazy” women, and the others are all “ooh sexy lady!”
On that note however: Ooooh, sexy redhead! *drools*
Va Va Voom! All she needs is pigtails. She’s that hot and that crazy!
Well, how do I put this. I really love your artwork and when it comes to drawing manly man no one could say youre wrong, but… her boobs look fake. Either that, or not drawn the way real Boobs fall, not even in such a corset. You see, the upper line of breats can never look like a tennis ball, only if there are implants or she has really swollen breasts (maternity?). I caught a nice Exaple of how breasts react when they are pushed up, and mostly it looks like this: http://www.imagesload.net/showimage&34659 (its no sexual content, have no worries)
Thats one explanation i created for a friend who started drawing anatomy and was doing well, but did the same way of breast. http://www.imagesload.net/img/brust.png Sorry that its in german and its just a sketch with m really not so good drawing skills >_____< but maybe (just maybe) I was… some kind of helpful… I just dont know .___.
Keep up the good work! *takes a trip to an unknown place in fear of furious fan rage*
Have you ever seen boobs in a corset? Apparently not. Also, notice that they’re slightly spilling out the side and aren’t perfectly smooth because the cup size is slightly small for her. Smaller cup size can further enhance boobs and make them look supernatural.
Your example is for when the breasts are naked. There are a lot of devices that can change the way even natural breasts look. Trust me, I wear one every day.
Hmm… additionally, depending on a person’s frame boobs can be closer together or further apart. Usually, the skinnier they are the further apart they are, though there is a limit on both that and how close they are.
/signed a chick who likes to look at boobs
… And because I’m an idiot I forgot to link to my corset example.
http://craziestgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/star-trek-corset.jpg
A quick Google search will show you that it largely depends on the person’s figure in addition to the corset and how well it’s sized.
…k, I’m done. Sorry. :p
Star Trek corset? O_O
My inner nerd demands that I propose to you immediately.
My outer nerd is demanding the same thing.
Well, i have seen them, because I am a girl (D-Cup) und wore (well, is that written right?) some corsets from time to time. I saw many breasts iin my life and i can only remember one girl who had naturally round breasts like that, but i still doubt they would have looked that way. I still find it very unnatural :X and you cut the image at the wrong part, i mean the upper rounding that can be found right over the boobs and is cut away here D: Still, I dont want to make a big drama out of this. But its a little bit offensive to automaticly asume that someone has never seen breasts because he or she mentions something he or she found somehow unnatural :X And yeah… Star Trek corset *__*
It wasn’t my intent to say that you’ve never seen boobs, so much as you’ve seen a very limited amount of boobs in corsets. The general style of corsets is to push them up and in, creating a spherical look that does indeed -seem- to defy gravity. Seriously, do a google image search for corsets and you’ll see the large part of boobs acting like this drawing instead of the corset image you linked. I think the example you gave actually shows where the corset wasn’t tightened enough because her boobs are essentially just a shelf. That or she has gigantic boobs.
Also… the biggest reason for the pushup here aside from the corset is the fact that the *cup* is clearly slightly smaller for her, which you can again see by where it’s pushing up along the edge of the boobs and not fitting properly.
I wish that I could say the Star Trek corset’s me and that I own it… that was just the coolest example I immediately saw when I did an image search myself. :(
One other small comment, just for reference, the example photograph you provided, the model definitely didn’t have the corset properly tightened and that will alter how it makes the body look. Ideally one should get a corset one size smaller than their measurements if they are going for a true tightly squeezed authentic look. The corset should press the breasts tightly to the chest which would give them that round apple look, if they lie flat like a shelf then the corset is not tight enough or too big.
I had a gf who had a corset with too small a cup (she was a 36DD). Her boobs looked alot like the Commader’s wife. Come to think of it, it was almost exactly that corset, colors and everything.
One possibility that I haven’t seen anyone hit on yet is that maybe Madeline couldn’t handle the Commander’s job. It’s been proven that he actually IS a time traveling soldier, and he’s said that he’s still considered active duty and gets called to fight from time to time (When he and Jonesy were in the coffee shop), not to mention that he runs an agency full of dangerous borderline psychopaths that might snap and kill him some day. Maybe she couldn’t take wondering each day when he left if he’d come home alive. Plenty of loving relationships have ended because of that.
I don’t know why people are still speculating this when the reason for their divorce was said canonically in the comic… It’s not like there’s a huge archive either. :|
Well, yeah, but it was pretty heavily implied that he was (as usual when asked a personal question) bullshitting Jonesy.
Uhh… for part of it, yeah. But with Commander it seems like a large part is exaggeration and founded in truth more than simply “bullshitting”.
I’m betting Jonesy cleans up real well in her own right. Plain Janes can be foxes when they want to show off.
Accidentally scroll down on the page further than I wanted to and saw this. I need to look at the full page of websites more often.
Nobody cries over spilt boob.
You could probably never satisfy her, she was with the commander after all. I just can’t compare to that guy
MANLINESS! Do you have what it takes to be manly in this day and age?! Well, do ya, punk?!
We don’t just mean plain old “macho”, weaklings! You’re on the Internet now, where the truly manly men eat dinosaur bones and razor blades for breakfast, brush their teeth with angle grinders, catch bullets with their furrowed brows, strangle rhinoceroses with their mustaches, communicate exclusively with their fists, eat iron and shit a chain
,juggle live helicopters, sneeze meteors and belch tornadoes!
She is absolutely gorgeous.
That woman may have weight, but she knows how to work it. I wish I had her confidence. Or at least more willpower… Then I wouldn’t have to worry about my circumference every time I succumb to the urge to bake something. Freaking new years resolution has backfired on me… I promise myself I can eat as much dessert as I like, provided I make it myself rather than buy it… next thing I know, I have an enormous recipe book, extra poundage, am enthusiastically looking for new exotic cookies to try next, and am entertaining the thought of buying me an ice cream machine…
Sweet Jesus…
And suddenly I am full of disturbing images of my stepmother
I have just one word/acronym for ya’ll….UNF
You know it’s a sure fire sign that I’ve been affected by games when the first thing I think of when I look at this is “Hey! Two upside down pokeballs!…oh wait”
That is a whole lot o’ woman.
What is her name?
Dang Ms. Squid, you’re just *exploiting* my weakness for red-heads…
BOING! Sorry, that’ll be my hilariously appropriate ringtone (worth every cent).