I’m sure I’ve mentioned on more than one occasion that I’m a big fan of men’s post-war pulp adventure magazines, so I feel like I’d be doing a disservice if I didn’t direct people towards this Art of Manliness post telling people where they can go to vote to help BULL Men’s Fiction win a 100K grant from Dockers so they can expand into a proper publishing house.
These are hard working guys who just want to bring back fiction that isn’t about glittery vampires, I think we can all agree that’s a noble cause.
Discussion (47) ¬
How about glittery VAMPIRES being WRESTLED TO DEATH in a SWAMP!
Meaty guys grappling sparkly fey vampires in the mud sounds like a fanfiction I’m sure I saw somewhere once…
I deny all involvement.
This reminds me that I really need to play Spirit of the Century sometime.
SotC is AMAZING with the right group. I recommend it.
Ah yes, that reminds me:http://artofmanliness.com/2010/05/26/vintage-mens-adventure-magazines/
WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH
this is nice and all, but the current leader – bringing ecological awareness to schools – seem a much nobler goal
It is, but it also seems like something many organzations are already doing (Or that could have just been my experience growing up in a forest). Still, the number of ecological groups out there doing their part to teach kids about the environment VS the number of men’s fiction publishing houses leads me to believe that the latter cause is doing more to fill a void. It’s important to teach kids about the environment, but I would say it’s also fairly important to make them excited about reading. It’s like he says in the pitch, publishers don’t think guys like to read, so they aren’t publishing fiction for them. So as long as they keep publishing stories the male half of the population doesn’t care about, they aren’t going to want to read them. Remember that these aren’t just stories for adults, it’s the kind of stuff that could give kids or teenagers who don’t care about wizards and vampires something to get excited about.
And considering that boys are falling behind in school when it comes to reading-type skills… yeah…
Yeah, sometimes all it takes to get people into reading is to find the right book that sparks their interest. I know it’s the way the world works because everyone wants to run a profitable business and all, but I’ve never been a fan of the idea that “this is what sells the best so everything needs to be this now”. That’s why I feel like it’s really important to support the small press guys, I know we can’t ask everyone to go out on a limb and do something different but we can at least give a hand to the people willing to put in the elbow grease it takes to trailblaze.
Yeah I came here to post something along these lines actually lol. Sorry man, but saving the environment trumps man-fiction in my book.
As I said, I think writing fiction that young men and teens who aren’t into high fantasy can enjoy is a noble cause unto itself. There are handfuls of organizations out there that teach kids about the environment already, I’m not convinced in this specific case that one more is going to tip the scales. And many school courses that taught camping or wilderness survival are on the decline for insurance reasons that he’s probably going to have the same problems over, there are more base concerns that need to be addressed before that program can be effective on a widespread scale, with the current state of public education. I think the fiction cause is the one doing more to fill a void at this point, promoting literacy in a group that is going neglected and written off as “not interested in reading anyway” is not an unworthy cause.
And once these young men learn to read, they can read about the environment.
TWO BIRDS, ONE $100k STONE
It’s worth pointing out too that the ecology program’s goal is to go statewide, so the money will only go to help a very small number of people. Books can be enjoyed by anyone who can read them.
Presumably providing content that young men would find appealing to read can be helpful in encouraging them to do more recreational reading, something much maligned among young men these days (as typhonblue pointed out). A more literate, intellectually curious population tends to be one that’s more interested in proper stewardship of the environment anyway, so one can imagine that trying to encourage guys to read instead of living da thug lyfe yo is probably a noble goal in and of itself. And like Coelasquid says, there are plenty of organizations that work to bring environmental education to the classroom; as a biology grad student, I know a few of my colleagues who fund themselves through such programs.
On manliness, what is your opinion of fiction set in the GRIMDARK future of the 41st Millennium. I mean, Warhammer 40k is basically manliness distilled into a fleshed out universe.
I dunno, I can’t help but be enthusiastic about the shift over in interests to things like “My Little Pony” for young men. Manly fiction is fun and all, but for now, I’d like to keep seeing a convergence of interests between genders.
I think there needs to be a broad ranges of genres available for everybody. Pushing ponies on guys is as bad as pushing them on girls, some people just don’t want magic horses and wizards and vampires and fluff and glitter and that sort of thing. Some boys do, and that’s great, but there need to be options out there to make everyone excited about reading. Girls don’t like hearing “girls don’t play games, so games should be made for boys” as much as I’m sure boys don’t like hearing “Boys don’t read, so books should be written for girls”. Obviously as a woman bemoaning the lack of this sort of literature, I don’t think it’s something that’s going to be doing a service just for men, I think it’s an entire genre falling to the wayside that should be supported for everyone – man and woman alike – who likes to read that sort of thing.
Hell, I’ll vote. Being a biologist all these ‘environmental issues’ stuff I do all day, so I’m ready to see some more Manliness around. Screw Dockers on this cheap information trawl attempt, but lets see what they can do with the crappy spurious personal data I put up on FB. Go, Haley! Hank Gritt would be proud.
Ahahah, yeah, if a worthy cause gets a hundred thousand dollars, I can deal with Dockers knowing I went to Sheridan and work in animation.
Forests, boys/men’s fiction… I’m just grateful that Coelasquid brought this to my attention! I had no idea this was happening…
(btw, I’m voting MANLINESS. Ecology has a lot of advocates. Boys need stuff to get interested in reading. But that’s my opinion. You vote how your own conscience guides. Which is why I’m grateful that this poll has been brought to my attention. Yay cicularity!)
oh hell. It’s FB, which I will not join. At all. Farts. (<— lame attempt at a faux-curseword)
Even though I voted for the Bull Men’s Fiction, I think you’ve pretty much linked me to a new favorite website of mine.
The Art of Manliness? How amazing is that? And not the modern ‘GRIMDARK Meathead’ type that all the kids are into these days! :O
I just read an article about Delayed Gratification, and I felt more manly just reading it! Thank you, Coelasquid! :D
Ah man, Art of Manliness is one of those sites everybody should be reading, it’s full of stuff like “How to cook a hearty soup”, “how to make fire with a stick”, how to make little portable tool sets, tackle boxes, and first aid kits out of altoids tins” It’s a really amazing site.
Indeed it is… I need to leave the house for a while, but the first thing I noticed in my RSS feed, after subscribing to the site, was a simple list about being frugal, and using WW2 era posters, which made me happy. And I got something to look forward to when I get back home.
And you are right, AoM is an amazing site. Thanks again for sharing it.
You mean altoids tins are used for something other than storing drugs in?
(I do, but its antihistamines and asprin and whatnot.)
Sounds good. Hopefully it’ll lead to some more film noir too.
Absolutely. I dream of a day when people actually want to see real men up on the screen again, guys like Bogart, Brando, Wayne and Eastwood. These days it seems like all the most famous actors lack the riveting, powerful presence that those men had. Johnny Depp is a fantastic actor, but he doesn’t command the attention of everyone in the room just by entering it the way Brando or John Wayne could.
You forgot David Bowie. Although I can let that slide.
Something that I think a lot of you who are arguing against the Manly Fiction getting the grant aren’t thinking about is this: A lot of that manly fiction takes place outdoors, with men living off the land and respecting the environment, lest they be destroyed by it. Now, I don’t know about all of you, but when I was a youngster, reading awesome adventure stories set out in the woods made me want to learn about it and safeguard it one HELL of a lot more than any textbook and boring teacher ever could. Fiction can be a great way to educate people because it actually holds their interest while they’re learning.
I never thought about it like that- excellent point!
I don’t have facebook, is there any other way to vote?
Same here.
I’ve been Facebook-free for about three months now and I’d like to keep it that way.
“it’s the kind of stuff that could give kids or teenagers who don’t care about wizards and vampires something to get excited about.”
Whatchu talkin’ ’bout Willies? Kids that don’t read and aren’t excited about wizards and vampires are perfectly fine, for the way bigger part, they turn gangst– Oh damn. Well that’s a pretty valid argument, I guess… but… I don’t know…
“to bring back fiction that isn’t about glittery vampires”
Christ, I’m sold. I think it now deserves serious consideration.
I guess I don’t understand the problem. Are they saying most young adult fiction is aimed at women? There are plenty of books that can be enjoyed by both sexes, and a lot that are DEFINITELY geared towards men, especially in the fantasy/scifi section. (EG: Gratuitous sex scenes.) What’s an example of a “book for men?” Rumble Fish, maybe?
Rumble Fish was published in 1975. It was a popular genre 40 years ago, but in the modern market publishers are flat-out saying men don’t read and there isn’t enough money to be made writing literature with a masculine edge.
I wouldn’t say that “gratuitious sex” in books makes them inherently aimed towards guys either. Probably the biggest offenders on that front are the kind of books with Fabio on the cover, and I don’t see a lot of men picking those up.
Hmm, you know, it’s funny. The only books I’ve ever read that really had what I would really call “Gratuitous sex” are the Anita Blake series and Keri’ Arthur’s werewolf series, and both of those were very much written by women for women and marketed to women as romance novels. The only series I’ve read recently that was geared towards men is the Dresden Files, and I’d like to point out the total two sex scenes in 13 books, both of which were quite tasteful. Something to think about there.
You know Harlequin? Like the smutty romance novels? They started out publishing stories about detectives and gangsters and soldiers and doctors, but they started switching over to porn-for-bored-housewives when the chief editor died and the producer’s wife took over his job. By the seventies all they were making was bodice-ripping women’s fiction, because there was more money to be made in that than spy stories and action books.
Touche! XD I guess I’m just used to seeing a lot of those Scifi books geared towards men for some reason. Maybe it’s just the covers? Bah. As The Story of North America says, “my logic is flawed.” XD
George RR Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire. I have no desire to read about people’s “fluids,” mang… Although he tends to get more detailed with the less savory couplings, so maybe he’s using it as a device? Meh..
Anyhow, I guess I still have trouble understanding what makes fiction “masculine” or not. Does it just deal with men’s issues more, or feature bromance and more male characters? I feel so ignorant! Haha! I read two of the stories from BULL, and they just featured male characters and had a charming, minimalist style.
I hope they get the money. While I didn’t read MANLY books when I was younger, they were definitely books targeted to a male audience.
(Hatchet, Animorphs, Redwall, Dragonlance, etc)
Hope they get more people reading.
As a writer of the past four years, I’m so glad to find that other people begin to suspect what I do. I’ve written almost 50 short stories and close to a dozen novels, and I can only get the most blase and limp-wristed of them published because it’s all men’s fiction. When I submit to editors and agents, they tell me they want something that appeals to women. But when I ask what’s happened to writing for men, I get called a sexist and have the door slammed in my face, all while facing imminent freaking bankruptcy because of the shift in gender bias. So, thank you so much for pointing this group out and for verifying that there is indeed something terribly wrong with the availability of fiction today for men and/or by men.
Good- I think we need a modern equivalent of Sherlock Holmes (I don’t care about the shipping, Watson is a gun-toting doctor who gets the ladies and Holmes can bend firepokers) or the Hardy Boys (it would be naive and twee today, but they’re decent non-bullying kids doing brave things)- simply PG-rated works in which smart men are heroes without it having to be in another universe. I may be going a bit far with Sherlock, though- my male friends who liked reading were fantasy/sci-fi readers and my brother never read (a shame, he’s a very smart guy). I think boys can find more luck in cartoon characters but it’s still a shame that there isn’t a lot of literature targeted for them. Some people can argue that men are more likely to find the ‘real-life’ plots often seen in women’s work as boring- but it’s more about the subject matter than the setting. I think men are more likely to want to get on with the plot, when women like to read about the depth of emotion and the exact words used to describe it (this is actually a good thing, but unfortunately this means we sometimes get some very bad sex scenes in 500-page novels, and at least 50 pages of someone complaining) Would military stories be a good subversion of this? It’s reality, but it’s still ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
Military books are wonderful- I’ve been reading tom clancy books since i was in middle school… kinda had a bit of an advanced reading level for my age… but now i mostly read in the sci-fi/fantasy genre eg all the star wars novels… just recently bought the drizzt do-urden novels from DnD. But i have noticed that outside of sci-fi there isn’t MUCH anymore that would appeal to young adult men. I grew up reading animorphs and michael critchen novels and the redwall series but i did notice that most kids my age didn’t read any of those really… i was one of the only kids that even checked them out from the school library. beyond that i don’t really know any good books for young adult men lol. A strong male figure in novels for men would do lots of kids some good.
I dunno if I’d say Animorphs and Redwall were “boys books”, they were pretty gender neutral. I think I knew just as many girls who read them growing up as guys. I mean, animorphs was written by a woman at that, I was a huge fan of the series when I was a kid, I never got the feeling “this book was written for guys” when I was reading it.