Pushing the limit of what constitutes “Not Provoking”
September 14, 2015
2:57 am
I actually started this early so I wouldn’t be up against the wire but then I ended up getting wrapped up in day job work I took home anyway so colour to follow when I can add colour I guess. Mostly this is just to show what Commander acts like around dysfunctionally macho guys he’s been friends with since primary school.
Also I made (painted) a cool jacket for myself when I got all burnt out on drawing hundreds of panels of sequential art earlier this week to cool down and recharge my batteries.
He seems mad. I wonder what how he would react to some bubble tea.
You do remember what happened the last time bubble tea came up?
That might’ve been the reference :P
In that case, I think the expression “wig out” might have some significance (and you probably don’t want to associate with him at that point, but this is just a guess).
Not really putting down strong women… just the one. Maybe it’s a habit?
She hasn’t really done anything “self important” or “bitchy” beyond “be in a position of power” so that shhhhouuuulldddd be a red flag…
Well only as far as we know. Maybe she’s been bitchy to him?
We’ve seen more of her than we’ve seen of him, why would we trust the second hand assessment of a character we barely know (and all we know of him is ‘given to fits of rage’) over our own assessment of a character we’ve seen interacting with several other characters over several weeks worth of comics?
Think he’s trying to piss off Rock more than anything all things considering. Judging from Rock’s reaction, might be a common side effect of the rage juice.
When you hit that level of angry you’ll just pick the easiest target, whatever it is and no matter how politically incorrect.
Why trust his judgement over ours? Because he’s a macho manly masculine dude guy bro man with big muscles, of course! He has a penis, and everyone knows it!
Clearly you weren’t paying attention in Patriarchal Bullshit 101 back in school – you were probably too busy being distracted by gay and/or girly feelings, a general lack of testerone, and being a total wimp. But that’s okay – not everyone can be a sick-ripped awesome mega elite Alpha male packleader! It’ll be okay, so long as you denegrate yourself in subservience and obedience to him, and unquestioning put up with the abuse he will heap upon you for the rest of your life, as is his rightful due in life.
I’m going to encourage people away from the personal digs here because this whole thing is turning into a powder keg and if it gets worse than this I’m turning off comments on this strip.
I -think- he’s being sarcastic, but honestly…it’s kind of hard to tell?
Definitely sarcasm. It’s not a ‘dig’ at anyone. Pretty sure it’s meant to be a play on characters’ behavior in the strip.
I’m about 95% sure it was intended as a sarcasm style joke. I know it made me laugh.
…then again, some rather strange things have also been known to make me laugh. (When I was 8 years old and my grandpa tried to cover my eyes at a PG-13 movie, I peeked and laughed at seeing a lawyer get bit in half by a T-Rex.)
I may not be the best judge on what’s meant to be funny
I believe this is sarcasm because of “Patriarchal Bullshit” and “dude guy bro man”.
I’m not sure who this is even supposed to be a dig at.
Word of God though… and this God makes cooler jackets than I have ever seen in person.
Eh, I think if any of us know, it’s Coelasquid? Word of God and all that.
Also, we’ve got a character with a known brain chemistry problem screaming aggressively about a woman who he is required, sometimes, to take orders from. A character we barely know, but who we’ve been expressly warned about in previous pages.
And while *we* don’t know Tank or his relationship with Angel, Rock Lobster Does know both of them very well, and has shown himself throughout the comic to be pretty reasonable in his judgement of others. And he’s the one saying it’s a gender thing.
I’m not really seeing much logical ground for giving Tank the benefit of the doubt here. Occam’s razor and all that.
His idea of “superior being bitchy to me” is probably “Tank, don’t run off in a berserk rage and risk getting us all killed please”.
…. Coelasquid is the author of this comic, you realize that right? Why are you trying to argue this?
I think the disconnect here is that we the readers don’t know Angel and Tank’s relationship, or Tank at all, really. For all we know, he could say that about anyone in a position of power.
Maybe he was talking shit about the other ladies on CB’s team between this page and the one from two weeks ago or something I dunno. But from the perspective of a reader (well- really just me, but I digress) who only knows what they’ve been given, it sounds like he’s insulting her personality rather than her gender.
“Bitch” is a VERY gender specific insult.
I get called “Bitch” very often and I’m a 6ft 4in guy at 330lb. In the Internet age, this is not gender specific anymore.
Except it is still a gendered insult. Usually when used against a man, it carries the implication that he is weak and womanly, or acting in a shrill, somewhat whiny manner. ie, “you gonna bitch out on us, man?” or “Don’t be such a little bitch” The whole reason these are used as insults is because they basically call the dude a woman.
Mmm. It’s interesting how “bitch” is an insult wielded against men when we perceive them to not be asserting themselves “enough”, and against women when we perceive them to be asserting themselves “too much”.
That is so, so freaking true. Good observation.
In my case… I’m not from an english speaking country, so the mileage will vary with the context as a lot of people don’t really know what a bitch is and only connect this to me via “bitching around” when they fuck up badly and I’m the one to push their nose into the dirt they just made.
Well, these things are going to be culture-specific. I mean, I imagine non-Brits might find my country’s use of “bollocks” as a term confusing.
Because if something someone says is “bollocks” then it’s rubbish, nonsense, false.
But if something is “the bollocks” or “the dog’s bollocks” then it’s amazing, awesome, brilliant and good.
Except in this context, “bitch” could easily be replaced with “asshole” without changing the meaning. Referring to someone as a bitch as a descriptive noun when they’re in a higher position of power than you and female implies they’re arrogant and throw their weight around, not that they’re somehow lesser for being female. If Angel was a guy, I’m assuming Tank would call her a dick instead; same meaning, different gender.
If he said “domineering LITTLE bitch” I’d agree with you on the implication that yeah, he thinks less of her for being female. But as it is now? Nah.
I think it’s kind of funny that I intentionally picked some of the most gendered language possible without letting the language get a little too spicy for what people expect from this comic, used against a character who has been shown as nothing but congenial and good at her job to make it as explicitly clear as possible that this character has issues with women in positions of authority and the response is “We just don’t know, we need to learn more, maybe it’s her fault, he probably doesn’t have anything against women”.
Sometimes it seems like people are so uncomfortable with the idea of sexism that they wind up getting kinda sexist about it.
Or, you know, *extremely* sexist about it.
I go by fluffy in real life (there’s hair involved) but I’m extremely ashamed of the Fluffy posting here.
And some people would just rather argue over the colour of the flag, after being explicitly told that it’s a red one. >_>
You see, we need to wait until the comic is colored first! Otherwise, it’s just second-hand accounts, you know?
But… we’ve only known the guy for, like, 2 pages. :(
I wasn’t implying that it’s Angel’s fault at all (and I’m sorry if it came across that way). What I’m saying is that the impression I got from Tank is that he’s a meathead with authority issues (and Angel, being an authority, would be someone he doesn’t like because he’s butthurt that she has the power and he doesn’t; even moreso because she’s chill and doesn’t enable his alpha male hangup).
Coupled with my understanding of the word “bitch” (as I explained in my last comment), it didn’t sound (to me) like he had a problem with women being in power as much as just having a problem with anyone in a similar standing that ranks above him. Hence my wondering if he was talking shit about the other women in the camp or something between this page and the one from two weeks ago to warrant CB’s comment. Hence also my assumption that he would be calling her a dick and acting the same way otherwise if she was a dude.
We’ve known Tank for two pages, yes – but we’ve known Angel for MUCH, MUCH longer. And even if Tank does have an issue with people ranked above him in general (which we don’t know yet), “bitch” is still very much a gendered insult. And it is one that is largely directed at women, most frequently when the person hurling the epithet feels that the woman is stepping outside the appropriate bounds.
And to cap it off, we have Word of God that this ought to be a red flag with regards to Tank. So no, those of us siding with Rock Lobster here aren’t being unfair to Tank – we’re *paying attention*. There’s a difference.
You seem to be misunderstanding me. Not once have I said that you guys’re being unfair to Tank, nor have I said that he’s in the right in any way. We all know that he’s being an asshole and that him calling Angel names is a bad thing. No one’s arguing that it isn’t.
“Bitch” is generally used when referring to women, yes; but the meaning and nuance changes given the context. Angel has a higher rank and therefore more authoritative power than Tank. Because of that, the “she’s less than me!!! >:(” nuance in it is lost (to me) without adding a diminutive or at least some more context. As it stands, it just sounds like he’s using the female equivalent of calling someone a dick (as in, an arrogant asshole).
And yes, I know Word of God says he’s being sexist; I fully accept that and have since she clarified it. I’m just explaining why I got the impression I got in the first place.
“bitch” isn’t really the same thing as calling someone a dick, dick is a pretty tame insult to imply someone is being thoughtless or selfish, the connotations behind “bitch” as an insult run the whole gammut of naggy, irrational, unreasonable, weak, inflated ego, undeserved sense of entitlement, “woman who doesn’t know her place”, and so on. Of course, some women have sort of taken “Bitch” back when they realized it was most often directed at them for taking charge of a situation and not letting themselves get pushed around, and sometimes people will use the term as a sign of respect if they know the person well enough to get away with it, but it’s pretty clear this the case here when he’s encouraging her teammate to desert her.
These sort of semantic arguments are really enlightening as to how the people involved think.
For example, Fluffy is assuming that “bitch” is an equivalent insult to the more masculine “dick”; that is, that the insults are more or less equal in severity. (I’d personally say that “bitch” is more equivalent to “bastard”, and “dick” to “cunt” but it’s not the comparison Fluffy made so whatever.)
Coelasquid, meanwhile, considers “dick” to be a lesser insult than “bitch”, meaning at the very least that she’s assuming a position where the genders are not equal.
I’d argue that assuming the feminine insult is more severe than the masculine insult is equivalent to assuming that women can’t take insults as well as men, that women are more emotionally vulnerable and need to be protected. Which is the exact position that feminism was originally created to combat, but I’m just some anon on the internet so what do I know?
Words are just sounds, or scratches on paper to represent said sounds, and have no god given implacable definition. Meanings are attributed to words by the being that hears them, therefore definitions are completely at the whim of the listener/reader. A misinterpretation occurs when the meaning intended by the speaker/writer does not match the meaning attributed to the words by the listener/reader. The fact that the words in question are considered sexist is secondary to the misunderstanding brought about by each individuals point of view. To quote my father, “Assuming makes an ‘ass’ out of ‘you’ and ‘me’.”.
I don’t think that was what Coelasquid was implying at all Tree. Her point (I think, don’t let anybody say I put words in other people’s mouths) is that ‘bitch’ and ‘dick’ are not equivalent because the way that the word ‘bitch’ is used, its meaning is a lot stronger. Its use is often rooted in sexism and misogyny, and has far wider implications about attitudes towards women and the perceived boundaries of ‘appropriate behaviour’ for men and women. When men call women bitches, especially women in positions of authority, it is often because she is seen by them to have violated these boundaries. This is not the case with ‘dick’. f It’s not a difference in the REACTION to the insult that makes it stronger so much as the motivations and attitudes of the person saying it.
And I think it’s pretty clear from the dialogue of this comic, that the takeaway is that Tank has some issues with women. He doesn’t just call Angel a bitch, he calls her a ‘domineering bitch’, as well as a ‘self-important broad’. This is incredibly gendered language with a lot of cultural context behind it. Given what we know of Angel I think it’s fairly reasonable to assume that this has less to do with his issues with authority in general and a lot to do with his issues with WOMEN in authority.
This is actually a fairly common issue in workplaces which have women in positions of power. One of the problems is that societal expectations around how men and women are ‘supposed’ to act means that behaviours in men that is seen as confidence or ambition, is perceived in women as ‘bitchy’, ‘arrogant’ or ‘unfeeling’. Adding in the anxieties around power dynamics and the ‘place’ of women relative to men amplifies this. They’ve done studies on this, where behaviours in female bosses which rate most favourably amongst their superiors and coworkers are ones described as ‘nurturing’ and ‘warm’ whereas favourable male behaviours are ‘assertive’ or ‘competitive’.
Man, conversation threads like this really make me despair for my potential career as a woman in the film industry.
Regardless of you personal view on the word and why you chose to use it, I also read it as Fluffly did, and fail to see why such a strong defense on your view when it is clear as water to me that Tank has an issue with the boss, but the usage of bitch and rest of the dialog on this particular entry does not tell me he has an explicit issue with every woman on the planet (though his personality would surely make that happen most of the time). If it is imperative that such association be made, then just edit something to set it in stone that the guy is sexist, but I don’t really see why would that be needed, the message seemed to be ‘you can handle/defuse situations better by not giving in to anger and pride’, instead of sexism-something.
Whenever I call a woman bitch it is because I want to insult them, no hidden connotations behind as I do not study the root of words. It’s like my lil brother once said after calling my father motherfucker! in front of my granma, “no, I was just meaning to insult him!”.
As a writer I guess you must exercise mastery on word usage, so that’s cool. But remember your message has to be understood by the readers.
Considering there wasn’t time to establish him being kind of a dick to “every woman on the planet” while he was in this state for folks who apparently accept nothing less than that as proof that this character can be kind of sexist sometimes, I chose this language as the next best thing and had to accept that maybe folks with extremely high standards for acknowledging a guy did a kind of sexist thing that his friends would razz him for might have it go over their head.
It’s really sad when you think about it and a testament to how society is on the issue at large. I almost expected a menist or someone from gamergate maybe even a Donald Trump knock off to walk in any second so they could all flock to him. So they could discuss the many issues of Tank being misunderstood and how men are being oppressed even in future societies.
Honestly it’s just sad you made it clear as could be without being tasteless. =/
I have to say that’s quite the strawman you built there. Besides which it’s not exactly something with “society on the issue at large”. Whether Tank is a misogynist or not is not really in debate, based on Coelasquid’s comment (mostly because it seems he hates everyone, but he probably has a particular axe to grind against women because the rules of engagement are different – he can’t just beat the crap out of them like he does to guys).
Tank is clearly described as being maladaptive, antisocial and generally a massive problem for polite society. His being a misogynist just adds a little more to the curriculum.
Also, meanwhile, notice how his being a misogynist makes him stand out? Notice how much weight this accusation has in real life.
Would a supported accusation of misogyny get people fired in a woman-hating world? Of course not. But it does happens in the West. So conceptually this notion that western society hates women is just ridiculous.
Am I saying that no one ever distrusts/hates women? No. Such people do exist. But they are not the norm.
Am I saying that all women hate men? Hell no. Misandrists are not the norm either.
Would men and women benefit from proper dialogue? Yes, but it need not be generalised. Identity politics are stupid and quickly descend into oppression olympics, whoever it concerns.
We don’t need to alway make shit about “all women” or “all men” or “all whatso-fething-ever”. We can just deal with things and move on.
So: Tank’s a roid-raging cyborg bull moose hopped up on aggro juice. He hits things. He wants to rise to the top of the pecking order. He hates women, probably because he can’t vent his rage at them the way he vents it on everything/one else. In short, a raging douche.
Deal with it. Heck, the Commander shows the way: don’t get offended. Who cares what Tank thinks?
That is a nice pointless soap box you have made yourself there just so you can try to feel special and for no other reason.
The thread was about people’s reactions to the comic and how they are defending Tank or looking for any excuse they can to do so. When Coelasquid made it obvious what was going on. How if Tank had been female there wouldn’t have been the same kind of defense for the character.
So this my reply was on the discussion of that point and the people trying to find any excuse to justify his actions and even try to equate calling someone a dick the same as bitch. All things important to my reply and the discussion. You ignored that though so you could hop on your special snowflake soap box and take it out of context.
Seriously bugger off nobody cares about your fake moral high ground.
I might’ve taken your first comment a bit personally, as I mentioned in another comment I’m not the best at handling criticism. So I probably overreacted.
My reaction was mostly to your generalizing the issue. I apologize if I missed the point. But I’m going to post to put my own perspective into context.
The thing is that quite a few people are extremely reluctant to jump on what might appear to be a bandwagon and thus will avoid coming to the obvious conclusion (i.e. that Tank’s being a sexist douche at the moment). While the reasoning behind trying to defend someone other people are joining up against might not always be good, the basic motive is not to defend whatever is being said, but rather that they get the mistaken impression that they’re dealing with a lynch mob (and so want to take a stand against what they think is “the mob”).
That’s the impression I got from Fluffy’s comments.
I guess the major actual disagreement we have is that you believe no one would defend Tank were he female and saying comparable things about men, and that I have the opposite impression.
I guess it depends on the environment, but in in my experience displays of anger (even if only verbal) from men are greatly condemned if not aggressively put down/reported to authorities. The backlash is stronger when the display is aimed at women/children/elders, and incredibly severe when the target is a pregnant woman.
While women don’t have a free pass when it comes to being aggressive, there is definitely more leeway given. They are not expected to be any more docile than men (where I live anyway). Most of us applaud when a woman defends herself from pushy suitors.
I can’t imagine what your environment is like, where women aren’t allowed to defend themselves and can never express anger, and men (especially big muscular ones) routinely make scenes without consequences. I’m sorry if my comment gave the impression I was trying to diminish your experiences or that of women in similar environments. It was not my intention.
I had just taken mistaken offence at a comment I felt was disconnected from reality, forgetting that what I see happen around me does not happen in the same way everywhere.
My apologies
Crazy, isn’t it? Dudebros say they’re Just Asking Questions and you answer them and, can ya believe it, they simply don’t accept the answers.
Well it seems to me it isn’t so much that he’s raging against women or even against Ace in particular so much as just whoever is an easy target, in this case, a rival team captain, using whatever insults come immediately to mind in his rage-juice addled brain.
However I could easily be wrong; I try to give folks the benefit of a doubt. It’s only too easy to start throwing out shit you don’t mean when your rage has been spiked to stupidly high levels, especially by chemical means.
Or maybe what’s funny is that you made a character and wrote some lines that you perceive to be paragons of sexism and loads of people disagree. Maybe it’s not our perceptions that are off.
“Paragon of sexism” is a pretty exaggerated way of describing a line that’s supposed to sound like a kinda douchey – yet clearly sexist – thing that a person might regret later when they calm down, but it betrays a very black and white prove-it’s-THE-WORST-THING-EVER-or-it-doesn’t-matter dichotomous line of thinking that I don’t really feel like catering to. Quite a few people got what I was going for so, you know, you can’t please everybody and all that. If someone thinks it’s totally cool and fine to call women with authority “bitches” for no reason other than “they are women with authority” it’s not a big loss to me if they miss the point and elect to stop hanging out on my website.
Coela, you’re awesome.
I wonder what brought out all the sexist sillypeople all of a sudden? Maybe having a well-adjusted, masculine male character call them out on a term they don’t really want to think too hard about because they’ve used it loads themselves?
I think it’s mostly because people forget about context. In this context (being unprovoked) it’s much as you describe, and unacceptably douchy on Tank’s part.
If it were in the context of Angel being undeniably obnoxious towards Tank (which would really be out of character for her), then it would definitely be more palatable. Not particularly cool, but it wouldn’t be nearly as bad as it is here.
What a few people forgot is that Coelas is not saying bitch is a taboo term in every circumstance ever – just that in the kind of context we see in this strip it definitely reflects badly on the person saying it (heck, Commander sums it up: “It comes off as insecure”).
In other words, if you dislike someone for reasons you can’t entirely explain, just say you dislike them (as opposed to coming up with a specific insult). Style points for insults only work in rap battles and the like.
You write well because that’s what I thought when I read the page. I don’t understand those comments either. I hope we’ll see what the commander is knitting. Nice coat by the way! :)
Fucking right? @coelasquid. I loved this strip. I’m glad you’re sticking to your guns. Holy shit.
Let me guess, you are heterosexual cis male and were never in the position in which women are put constantly?
Just a little thing to think about…if you want to put someone down, what are those people called by those with power over them?
Like in prison/gangster movies where you know something very evil will happen soon?
Yes, the victim will be called bitch, calling them little or dirty bitch is upping it a notch. But the term bitch itself is already putting them into the imaginary position of an animal in heat that is hungering for getting degraded in the worst way possible.
Biologically that is not true, same as dirty pig or dumb cow is a fabricated construct. But seen in the imagined context…it is one of the worst, respectless things you can say to someone.
I’m actually an asexual cis female, but thanks for making assumptions about me. :V
And your argument implies that Tank has power over Angel, which is most certainly not the case. I’ve already explained how the nuance changes (for me) when it’s used against a person in a higher position of power than you.
I think your assumption was essetially correct, but incomplete. Using the word against someone in a position of authority does imply that “they’re arrogant and throw their weight around” as you put it. But it is still a gendered insult, and therefore carries the additional baggage of “they don’t deserve that authority because woman” There’s just no way to get away from the specific gender baggage of the word, no matter how it is being used, or against whom.
“Bitch” might not have caught the attention of your sexism-dar, but I think you forgot about the “self-important broad” part of that insult.
He called her a whore. That is a sexist insult no matter how you try to slice it.
I can’t wait to screenshot this and bring it to my gender studies class so that we can deconstruct it.
My personal opinion: People are reacting differently to the word ‘bitch’ because of changes of power dynamics in society. Some see women’s power comparative to men as being more equal, others see it as more unequal, and still others see the men’s power as being diminished (probably because, although there has been constant redefining of women and power in conjunction, there hasn’t been anything similar that occurred with men, so masculinity is still being defined in a comparative manner to its opposite gender role).
nah don’t you know women are a hive mind so disliking any woman for any reason is the same as hating all women always.
Yeah well, disliking machos for making dumb, sexist comments does automatically mean that (wo)men dislike all men, doesnt it?
If you dislike one man for his attitude, you automatically hate all men…
I wonder who really has a hivemind here, (wo)men who react allergic to sexism, or sexists who swarm to a blog page or a face book post where a sexist is put down, to excuse said sexist and their behaviour.
I’m wondering who is really sexist, the people who are often called sexists or the people going around calling everyone sexist as if the only reason a person could have for liking/disliking anyone can only be because of the sexes of those involved.
what we do know because it was specifically stated is that Tank is pretty chill except for times like now when his brain chemistry is out of whack and that rock believes he’ll feel like a real heel for calling Angel a bitch once it levels out.
that’s not sexism, that’s a mental health issue, guy basically has tourettes but no defending him for something he has basically no control over means those people are sexists defending sexism, right.
Good point.
My other response to someone can be amended to: “who cares what Tank thinks (add-on nuance) when he’s out of his mind on aggro juice. Odds are he’ll regret everything he said”. Commander’s comment in the last panel seems to illustrate that it’s a temporary state, much like Jackspades mentioned.
I guess we could also add that his rage-addled statements does not necessarily reflect an existing contempt for women. It might actually reflect frustration, which is pretty ubiquitous (arguably inevitable) between men and women (on both sides, as a result of miscommunication and misunderstanding) – naturally inflated into all-out hostility by the “aggro juice”.
I rather like the term aggro juice for some reason. Added into my personal vocabulary for everyday use.
Of course he could still have deep-seated animosity towards women when sane. The point here in either case is not to excuse Tank’s behaviour, but rather to understand it. Regardless of how he is when not hopped up on the combat stimms, he does seem like a pretty sad case (how much of that sadness is his fault, well that has yet to be seen).
However I must admit Jackspades’ original post could have been phrased a bit more tactfully. Then again I’m terrible at handling criticism (and consequently tend to phrase any criticism I say in a diplomatic way). However I think I catch the basic meaning, being that you dislike identity politics and the resulting oppression olympics that ensue.
Poor mental health can explain poor behaviour (in this case the raging sexism that Tank is spouting), but it doesn’t actually excuse it. Obviously in this case, Rock, and presumably everyone else, is aware of Tank’s issues, and willing to forgive him because they know he will feel awful about it later. It’s the difference between saying”OMG, he’s a sexist” and writing him off completely, and saying”hey, that thing you said was really pretty sexist, and you should feel bad about that” and accepting that he truly does feel bad about it.
I mean, speaking as someone who has moderately shitty mental health, it kind of pisses me off a LOT when people act like mental health either can be used to excuse shitty behaviour or works as some kind of shield against accusations of being shitty.
Because at my worst, at my absolute lowest point, where I couldn’t even bathe myself or feed myself and when the meds I was on were giving me such delightful side effects as *increased violent tendencies* and *uncontrollable emotional swings* AND I was in an intensely toxic environment that was making everything worse, I never behaved in some of the ways I’ve seen people attempt to cover with “but mental health”.
It’s entirely possible for someone to have mental health issues *and also* have some personality flaws that they can be held responsible for and expected to work on. Someone can be mentally ill and also genuinely be racist, or sexist, or ableist, or homophobic, or any of those things. And for those of us who might struggle with appropriate language and behaviour, it is even more important to maintain clear and strict boundaries and to speak out when we fuck up. Because that’s how we learn. And those of us who aren’t shitty *need that*. And that’s exactly what happens in the comic. Rock makes space for and is chill about Tank having an outburst, but is also clear that he doesn’t approve of the stuff Tank is saying.
Tank has mental health issues that make him prone to outbursts and emotional swings like this. And his underlying attitude towards women influences the specific ways in which his outbursts manifest.
That’s basically it, it’s like, they’ve done what they can to give him some agency over his brain chemistry and they’ve made it clear that it’s not okay for him to talk to them like this, but they still understand what he’s going through and try to be patient with him.
Whoa whoa whoa!!!! This discussion completely derailed into totally unecessary territory. The debate over the semantics of insults and the deep meaning of the word “bitch” was fine.
However, agressing those who iniated the discussion with accusations of misogyny and trying to make “excuses” for Tank’s behavior, relating it all to Gamergate and Donal Trump etc. all of that was totally uncalled for.
Allow me to try and bring it all back on track. I think the “problem” really boils down to a debate on semantics and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE. You see, it all started with someone expressing their feeling that Tanks first words wasn’t enough to mark him as a misogynist, thus making Commander’s answer “unfitting”. The debate has already been made about us not knowing Tank enough, but Commander actually knowing him enough etc.
The way I see it, it boils down to a criticism of Coelasquid’s writing. Yup, I’m going there, we can criticize the artist :D It all comes down to Coelasquid considering the word “bitch” to be in itself a sufficient indicator of misogyny.
That’s the node of the problem. The author decided that “bitch” was a potent and meaningful enough word to establish Tank’s misogyny, and people questioned that choice.
I also want to join in the debate and give my personal stance on the matter, but I’m doing it in a separate comment to ease up any potential response.
My opinion is that I agree with those who questioned that choice of words.
“bitch” is indeed a gendered insult, but to me that merely means that its meaning changes entirely depending on the gender of the person it’s aimed at. It may indeed have deeper meanings about a woman trepassing her position etc. but it can also have no meaning whatsoever. Bitch is a “default insult” when referring to a woman. It can sometimes express nothing more than “I have a problem with this woman”. Just like “asshole” said to a man expresses nothing more than not liking his behaviour.
I find the expression “self-important broad” to be much better suited to the situation. It may be purely my point of view, but I feel that “broad” conveys much more animosity towards women than “bitch”. “Bitch” translates to “I have issues with this woman”, whereas “broad” translates to “I have issues with this woman, and the fact she’s a woman is one of them.”
So I say that Coelasquid made an error in the order in which she used both insults :p She should have done it the other way around.
Cool story, a lot of people do use it to mean “I have a problem with this woman”. The rub is that most of the time the “problem” they have is “she is a woman in a position of power and don’t think her authority should be respected”, which is pretty plainly the case here, save someone’s fanfiction about all the mean horrible things Angel has done to him off screen.
So what you’re saying is, it’s a misoginistic insult because the people who used it the most often are objectively misogynist? I don’t really agree with that way of seeing things, but I’m totally unable to argue against it…
It’s basically the same thing as the word “nigger” which is considered racist because back in the days it was used by slavers. That “logic” always seemed rather silly to me, but it seems to be the logic most people want to follow so… okay. I’ll just have to roll with it.
I’m saying it’s a sexist insult because the character in this specific instance, the comic right now that you are currently presently reading, the character who is the focal point of this conversation, is plainly using it against a woman who has done nothing to slight him but “be in a position of authority”. (Which, in addition to happening in this comic, is an extremely common thing that happens in real life to women in positions of authority). In a narrative sense it is there along with other qualities (for example hitting people out of frustration and insulting the masculinity of people who don’t want to fight him) to show that Tank suffers from a smorgasboard of toxic masculinity hangups, which his peers understand and attempt to peacefully discourage because they care about including him.
Granted, I’m not really all that comfortable continuing a conversation with someone who thinks it’s totally cool for them to use ethnic slurs because they aren’t “racist” like slavers so uh… yeah. I try to keep a zero-tolerance policy for that kind of language here because I don’t want to make other readers and friends of mine who don’t want to deal with that sort of thing feel unwelcome on my site, so just a heads up that using slurs like that in the comments here will probably get those comments deleted.
Well, my entire point is that it’s NOT an ethnic slur in the first place… But okay, this is not the place for such debate, this is the place for a funny and thought provoking webcomic about masculinity and future super robot soldiers.
If that word is not a ethnic slur, what is it? Even the people trying to change the word’s meaning pronounce and spell it differently.
Originally, that word was nothing more than a descriptor, it was not anymore of a slur than “penis”. It had no other meaning than to describe someone’s ethnicity. However, at that time ethnicity had a lot of baggage behind it, so by association it did mean a lot of bad things. But that meaning was in the context, the situation, not in the word itself.
There were also a lot of REAL slurs to really enforce the idea of inferiority. The word we’re discussing was, as it were, the most scientific and polite word there was in this context.
That jacket looks positively badass on you!
Seconded! Did you have any particular inspiration in mind, or did you go with the flow? The style of the outfit looks vaguely familiar, but I have no idea why.
It’s Rock’s jacket…?
I think so. It does look like Commander’s jacket.
Just popping up to tell you about a tiny thing, “capain” in panel 4. Thiswebcomic is absolutely awesome, always makes my day.
Also, that’s the coolest jacket, I hope you know.
It IS possible that Tank is specifically trash talking in an attempt to rile up Rock into switching sides/coming down for a beating. However, I don’t know that he’s even capable of that level of strategic thinking at the moment. Frankly, Rock’s observations of his brain chemistry seems to be the most pertinent point here; right now Tank strikes me as someone with severe biochemistry issues (either exasperated or specifically CREATED by the military) and currently filled with too much anger to communicate how unhappy he is about himself (In other words, not so much that he’s a jerk as that he’s brain damaged and suffering from crippling hormonal imbalances). I don’t think Angel, Rock, or the others would continue to associate with him if they saw him as a genuinely unpleasant bully, as opposed to a brother who has been horribly traumatized by the same military brass that Rock has repeatedly fought against for… well, for deliberately traumatizing them.
…this story arc is gonna punch us all in the emotional gut isn’t it?
EVERYTHING about CB’s upbringing hits us all in the feels.
I think this is insightful and goodpoints
Me too, helpful explanation.
This is basically everything I was trying to communicate here.
Succeeded. BTW nice jacket. And have a good time recharging your batteries.
I concur, to all 3 of those things.
And yes, HP Sauce is ludicrously hard to find here, but it is so very much worth it.
Yeah, the vibe I’m getting here is that all of this would immediately shut down the second that anybody ELSE seriously threatened Tank, Angel, and/or the Commander. Dude’s going off like this because he knows that they aren’t going to escalate. And he doesn’t want to escalate: he just wants the high-pitched metallic whine in his head to stop…
I have no idea why people are wishing so hard to interpret it in other ways, when it seems so clear to me.
Is Commander also getting maybe just a teensy bit of amusement with the scarf thing too? Because he’s always struck me as kindof a big teddybear who likes to poke buttons on occasion. Like with the Garlic bread on the Viking boat.
(Please note I referenced the scarf thing. I’m under no delusions he gets enjoyment out of his brother’s mental condition itself. Just, they are still brothers ya know? Well I mean YOU know. You right them.)
I got that impression. The tone of some of the comments seemed way out of tune with that of the comic. Archone hit the bullseye of what I thought (and was hoping) it was about. Kudos for the observation!
And as usual, kudos to the writer. Keep em coming!
Excellent observation, Archone.
Your post certainly sound plausible.
Also to some of the posters who focus on the whole insult part, i look at Tank and personaly i think he show some restraint, possibly by blowing off steam with insults. After all if he really wanted a fight i think he would realize two things. First, Rock is up in a shelter that stand on poles and second, Tank have a big chainsaw.
I think i would like to see more of Tank in a more relaxed setting like we did once before. For some reason he strike me as more of a gentle giant on a good day.
Man…spending so long with this guy really must have helped him develop his not provoking skills. I can see why he went into his current career, he was definitely well trained for it.
Word.
Sticks and stones and fine knitted scarves.
That is one badass jacket!
Omg I WANT your jacket! Need pattern need pattern need leatherstuff
I just found a red leather jacket and deglazed/painted/refinished it with Angelus leather paint (it’s a brand specifically for staying on leather like jackets and shoes that sees a lot of wear and tear without cracking or chipping)
Just, uh, just for the record…
I apologize in advance for probably coming to steal that jacket because it looks so good.
I know it’ll still be a jerk move, but I’ll be too busy gleefully clutching at the badass stylings to apologize as I run away.
I bet you could make a fair amount of money if you could mass-produce them somehow and sell them to your readers. I would totally buy a Commander Badass jacket. (But then, much like Jared, I think capitalism is pretty awesome sometimes, so my opinion may be biased.)
I was just loving the banter, but then you went and made a badass jacket in between an apparently intense day job and also doing this awesomesauce comic and now I feel bad about myself =p
Shit, I hope Tank never meets Kratos. The anger level alone would probably melt the room.
On the plus side, Tank might be durable enough for Kratos to have a punching bag that won’t die on him.
Unless Kratos tries to rip Tank in half or tear out his tubing or whatever – then some fully-armored time travel with industrial-strength tranquilizers to stop one of them from killing the other would be in order.
Don’t think Kratos talks as much…
He screams a lot instead.
Nice jacket. It looks just like Commander’s!
…..Hm, a scarf of his favorite color eh? ……Maybe it’s pink
What’s interesting is that pink used to be considered a masculine color due to it being a tint of red.
http://forgottenhistoryblog.com/pink-wasnt-always-considered-a-feminine-color-and-blue-wasnt-always-masculine/
Oh, you didn’t make the jacket, just modified it? Still way cool :D
Wait, Angel is also Rockies boss at that Hero Rehabilitation clinic? How come we have never seen her there? Or is Tank meaning his ‘real job’ as a Future Space Marine?
She’s the Captain he’s a Commander under. They mention it in another strip. Their titles are mostly granted based on what sounds cool but Angel is still the person he reports to most directly. Commander used to be “Captain Badass” but he was bad at it and got swapped out with Angel because she could actually do the job.
Tank’s kinda inflating the amount of direct control she has over Commander because he’s angry and exaggerating, she’s mostly just his point when he needs to check in because he doesn’t backsass her.
I didn’t even realize Angel was female until this comic. Whoops. >_>
Hmm, always figured a ‘Commander’ was higher than a ‘Captain’
Naval commissioned ranks go Lieutenant (of various grades), then Lt. Commander, then Commander, then Captain (which, confusingly, is also the title-of-address for anyone who is currently in charge of a ship, even if they’re a green Lieutenant who is completely out of their depth and is only in charge because everyone of higher rank is dead or incapacitated), then Commodore, then Admiral (of various grades).
Army ranking doesn’t have “Commander” at all.
Well technically the army has Tank Commanders, but that’s not a crew position, not a rank/grade.
Clearly you need to watch more Star Trek. Most of the senior officers are commanders, they all answer to Captain Picard
Haha, wish there was a ‘like’ option for your comment, Hadespuppy!
Trolling them with kindness!
So basically, the military turned him into a more temperamental version of Bane. Is there anything they can do to get those angry juice tubes removed?
Not without the military taking it as an excuse to do something worse. They’ve already jailbroken him; I think they’ve pushed the limits of what they feel they can get away with.
This is refreshing! It’s a shame you’re not writing for Hollywood.
Ahahaha, that’s my day job, funny enough.
Which is pretty damn awesome. I’m super glad that some of the producers can recognize talent when they see it.
Oh man, this strip slew me. Nothing winds an irrationally angry person up than someone being calm and reasonable with them. :-)
That’s the lesson to be learned. Rick’s ability to disengage and not to be sucked in by the sheer wrongness of poor Tank’s issues is so mature, it’s masterful. I don’t know if I’d have the presence of mind to appeal to the guy’s ego like that, but then I realize that likely there’s a back story between these two.
(Ahem. I meant to say not “Rick”, but “Rock”. head bonk)
And Morty, I mean jarred learned it from him. XD
This whole page is beautiful!
Uhm…so…the commander’s feeling pretty safe in his wooden shelter built on wooden supports while the crazy bundle of chemicals and cyberware below him is holding a chainsaw…
Apparently, whatever is causing Tank’s raging hormonal imbalance is messing with his cognitive abilities. If he was smart enough to think of using the chainsaw to cut down the Commander’s supports, he would have abandoned talking and done it by now.
Maybe Tank doesn’t really want to hit Commander right now and is having a good time with the survival stuff, he just has to act pissed off and ornery about it on principle.
It’s like an all weekend arts and crafts course to distract from the rage, with the arts and crafts specifically geared towards his tastes, preferences, and chest-thumping attitudes.
I… kinda agree with you. I think this kind of survival camp is something Tank really appreciates, or most likely he would if he wasn’t all in RAAAAAAAAAGE mode, currently not thinking straight. I don’t think he’s just faking it. He may be the one who actually needs those weekends the most, to put all of this aggressivity out of his system. For the others, these are nice “get-together-and-have-quality-time” moments. Tank though, without them, would probably become a ticking bomb during his everyday life.
Oh, I didn’t mean to suggest he was faking the rage, just that he might have emotions or cognitive awareness going on along with the rage that influence just how violent he acts out.
He might resent CB and want to beat him up at the same time knowing CB is kinda like a brother and that they’re basically on a camping trip that lets him act out some of his issues in more socially acceptable ways.
I mean he let the others jailbreak his cyborg stuff, that suggests at least some level of trust that might still exist on an instinctive level even when he’s raging.
I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that there are a substantial number of young people, raised on zombie movies and never having done much in the way of woodcraft, that don’t understand that chainsaws were meant to be used on trees.
Hey Coela, Me and my boyfriend have been reading for a while now, just wanted to tell you that we think it’s badass that you work so hard to put strips up, period. Thank you so much for this awesome comic and fuck everyone bitching about having to wait for the new strips to be colored.
Commander, your stitches are going to come off your needles if you don’t work on your hold. @_@ ((But seriously awesome page.))
Boss jacket you got there.
I find it deeply endearing that the Commander knits parlour-style. Like seriously, knitting like a victorian lady of leisure suits him, I just figured he’d probably knit continental style since it’s more efficient.
He’s a newbie, Angel just taught him (also that was the clearest reference I could find of hands from the front)
Ow. The Commander’s last bubble got me right in the neurochemistry, mostly because he’s right.
Just like that time he made origami in front of that General. B52 is the man.
Yeah, that was quite fun. Because he continues to break (bad) expectations left and right.
And hey, knitting is a useful skill too! Or any sort of textile production skill for that matter.
Indeed! You never know when you’ll need bandages…or a sweater…or a scarf…and ‘a ground-pounder’s always going to appreciate fresh socks!
Someone on reddit posted that a person on the bus made fun of her for knitting on the bus. It’s like, dude, I can make my own clothes. That’s a fucking apocalypse skill. You’re…playing Candy Crush? That’s nice.
Being able to match candies is a much needed survival trait. Right up with starting a fire.
Rock *is* mainly there to make jam.
Rock’s so used to dealing with overclocked testosterone that he can be mature about it.
Ooh, maybe if he gets frustrated enough about not being able to punch Rock he’ll flip out and start doing Leatherface’s angry chainsaw dance.
Oh dear word, I love this conversation so much!
Darn it – I want a Commander Badass jacket like that sooooooo bad.
Man, this was funny.
But Tank’s situation makes me sad.
Since I do believe Commander’s words, It feels sad that Tank looses himself mostly because of what the military did to him.
Why is Tank the other team’s captain, anyway? He doesn’t seem like any kind of tactical thinker. And my impression of the other space-future folks is they give him the job for just yelling loudly and punching stuff.
He’d probably tank out on how he has to listen to others and that he dosnt get to be in charge. Rage juice remember?
I think Tank may be his whole team.
Spider’s teamed with him, iirc. Team Cyborg.
He’s probably team leader because it makes him a little happier. It’s not like a team made up of two walking tanks operating independently really needs a chain of command.
“I hold them, you hit them.”
“But *I* wanted to hit them!”
“Okay, okay. We can *both* him them. Left hand for holding, right hand for punching?”
“Aww, man! Punching? I wanted to *kick* them!”
I think he got the job because no one wanted to disagree with a titanium bull moose. Hypothetical space future military brass doesn’t seem particularly logical to start with (what with deliberately traumatizing its super soldiers, sabotaging past wars so movies could be made (i.e. the Rambo thing)). It doesn’t look like much of a leap to put a dysfunctional cyborg berserker in charge of a squad. Gotta keep dat drama rolling.
I like that panel 2 is a subtle jab at that troll that shows up in the comments periodically. Also, that jacket is the bees knees.
I’m noticing in the comments that some people don’t seem to understand that this strip has nothing to do with feminism, or women in general. It’s just one guy who is blinded by his rage, acting like a child, and trying to get under the skin of another guy who is very stable. The point is that Commander doesn’t give a fuck what Tank says cause he knows he’s just spouting nonsense and so responds in kind. I mean, come on, Tank has a chainsaw but he’s so blinded by his rage he hasn’t thought to use it on Commander’s tree house. Now THAT’S funny.
I’m noticing in the comments that some people don’t seem to understand that there’s a pretty sexist situation occurring here. It’s one guy, blinded by his rage, acting like a child, and talking shit about a woman in a position of authority. The point is that Commander doesn’t give a fuck what Tank says ’cause he knows Tank’s just spouting nonsense and responds in kind. I mean, come on, Tank has a chainsaw but he’s so blinded by his rage that he’s spouting sexist insults instead of using it on Commander’s tree house. Now THAT’s funny.
Y’know, I’d appreciate the commentary more if you used your own words instead of just trolling me.
Knitting needles should be held upward. Otherwise, it’s almost impossible to build stitches, and they may slid off the needles.
The Commander’s so badass, he can knit *upside down*.
That is the most calmly aggressively response that i´ve have seen. Now what I would like to see is the embarrassed face of Tank after rage goes down.
I’d rather see him get a much-needed hug, but it feels like that would be a natural progression from the face.
Thak jacket is giving me a lot of 40’s Flash Gordon vibes. Ooooh. Tickles. :D
I read Tank’s lines in Arnold Schwarzenegger’s voice.
Who wouldn’t XD
I didn’t. Ultimate Warrior here.
Borderlands 2 Raging goliath seemed more appropriate to me. If any NPC in a game sounded out of their minds on aggro juice, it’s them. Their line about cracking skulls open with their thumb in particular seems to match Tank’s mental state right now.
YES. Ultimate Warrior is the ultimate rageshouter.
I got chipmunk. Because nothing says angry, I secure guy than a high, squeeze voice.
Like the Alvin and The Chipmunks or like how people used to do Mike Tyson impersonations?
MGDMT has conditioned me to see Commander as the standard for what all men should try to be in terms of problem solving, management, and ethical conduct, and I am so happy with this development.
It definitely makes me as a guy want to be like him. Well, aside from the brawn he has to back his brain. I’m a very average sized person, if I tried to get as muscled as him I would most likely hurt myself. But he is, quite simply a very good male role model.
Commander is handling this really well. Though I admit I’m not sure how well this will work guess it depends on how Tank works. Either it will through him off balance enough that he’ll calm down, or at least lost the anger, or it will piss him off more. I assume Command knows Tank well enough that it will be the former.
As an aside, does being told to calm down piss anyone else off? Like even when your not mad?
no, but thats usually my husband’s prequel to ‘do you need chocolate, wine, or sex?” and seriously, how do you get pissed off at somebody offering all that because the kid broke a plate?
The commander is such a great role model :3
As someone who just started the Annual Knitting of Christmas Gifts, starting with a scarf in someone’s favorite color…
THIS MADE ME HAPPY. ^_^
How do you manage to not provoke someone who is literally looking for any reason to get angry and start a physical fight? O_o
Had a family member get pissed because netflix needed to be re-logged in while I was at work. Was infuriated that I wouldn’t give him the password.
Frankly if they keep breaking the settings for login.. I really don’t need the family upgrading the account or messing with other settings.
“You’re not a man you wont go outside and settle this right now!(insert slew of insults and low hanging fruit.)”
Over a god damn tv password… >_>…
Hey, Coelasquid, you saw the thing a couple weeks back about the neural network that tries to transfer art styles, right? I just got a version of it working a couple hours back, so decided to try to stylize your Commander cosplay using the Commander as a reference
As for the results… well, it seems to have decided that you should be wearing gloves and changed the pants color to match the style more closely. And the boots aren’t too bad.
http://i.imgur.com/O0K86hx.png
No idea what was going on with the face, though. I guess it thinks you should be smiling?
That last panel makes me giggle like a fiend, so well done!
Is anyone else starting to get the feeling that one of the reasons they started doing these survival competitions was so that Tank could get a slightly healthier and safer way of venting his anger issues. Cause given what we know about his past and his attitude from his interactions with Commander, it feels kinda like this is probably helping him to not hurt others and or himself in a fit of genetically programmed and trauma and chemical reinforced rage. It really makes me pity him, especially because I have family with similiarities issues of anger.
I had the same impression and from what I gather from earlier comments, so did Lemuria.
Even though, from the previous page (in this story arc, so, the one from two weeks ago) Rock said Tank has had “alpha male hang ups” ever since childhood. Which, given their upbringing, is very weird: this kind of behaviour is learned, you’re not born sexist or alpha wannabe. And it should have been pretty obvious for him from the get-go that nobody in their batch is actually an alpha, they’re all lackeys for their government. Maybe Tank is dumb. Maybe he’s been partly brainwashed. In any case, the fact he still thinks like this makes me wonder why he believes it’s livable.
You’re right, this kind of behavior IS learned. However, there’s the whole issue of free will; the brass probably looked at each developing child and determined which one was willing to, shall we say, make the deal for the magical turkish delight. Encourage Tank’s development as a child, when he’s susceptible to such things… and now trying to overcome that early indoctrination is all the more challenging because the brass put a device in his head that lets them shut off all capacity for rational thought with the press of a button.
I think he KNOWS it’s not livable. But overwhelming rage is like clinical depression; you can use all the logic you like, but the biochemistry is STILL going to keep telling you the same unpleasant things over and over, like a preteen internet troll. Later he’ll cry in private (since he’s an “alpha male” and can’t let anyone see him crying), and then he’ll apologize, and Angel and Rock will hug him and pretend they don’t know he was bawling his eyes out over the horrible things he said, because this is their brother who was crippled by injuries inflicted by their own side.
Ouch Archone. Ouch. Out of all the comments on this comic, this is the one that honestly got me in the feels. :( Saying he’s ‘really angry’ is one thing, but when you compare it to the chemical issues of depression that are unable to be countered by logic, leaving you crippled by overwhelming emotion no matter how much you try to keep your thoughts clear, it’s hard not to feel bad for the guy. Now I really wanna give the poor guy a hug …preferably when he’s calm enough he won’t squish me (and when he’s not being an ass). But still the point stands. The longer you think about these guys’ backstories, the sadder they get.
…He’s still being an ass though. It’s just sympathetic circumstances
I want a t shirt with commander knitting on it now. or a coffee mug.
Man if he’s 8 feet tall and weighs 700 pounds, that minibike of his must be a very special make/model. LOL reminds me of that scene from X-men origins Wolverine, where Logan gets on the motorcycle and the thing sinks under his weight,
Tank =/= Jet
I don’t mean to knit-pick but the needles should be pointed upward, not downward.
That jacket is quite impressive. Is leather painting very difficult?
Commander is basically going “I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!”
So if Tank and the Commander are specifically designed to appeal to some sort of badass ideal what did the top brass think of when they went and made Angel and the rest?
There’s more than one format to badassitude. Besides which the skill sets differ. A good tactician is needed somewhere (Angel), Rock is more of a morale officer. Tank… well sometimes you need to hit things harder than mere mortals can imagine. Also makes Rock and Angel’s jobs more challenging to manage an unpredictable cyborg battlerager.
Well, Angel looks a lot like the FemShep I played throughout the Mass Effect series. Even the hairstyle is pretty close. And you can’t tell me that’s not a completely badass character :P.
So, you have probably heard a lot about his name, but are you aware of this? http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5648
Does Tank ever have times when his head clears enough to feel bad about his behavior? Or is he kind of stuck in that rage mode 24/7? If it’s the latter, I actually feel kinda sorry for him; I’ve had hormonally induced rage fits like that and it’s REALLY unpleasant! (Thankfully in my case it was temporary. Medication stuff. And I was able to keep my head enough to realize I was getting enraged over literally nothing.)
Not inclined to take anything away from the character when he’s almost perfectly playing the part of the “I’M SILLY” straw-man for a political cartoon and it’s apparently while he is experiencing involuntary chemically induced rage episodes.
Color should be interesting as I think I’m overlooking some details for, I would guess, a certain lack of places that it feels like I can rest my eyes right now. Don’t know art well enough to know if that even makes sense as an observation.
Kinda want your jacket. But I’m really just jealous that you look good in red.
(I look awful in red. So much jealousy. Sooooooooo much.)
Even with all of the debate going on about Tank & Angel, what I get out of the comic is:
Tank is the one being a bitch & doing so on purpose to rile up Rock into doing something stupid. The Commander has already shown us that, considering that he’s genetically engineered to be a super-soldier, he’s still a well-adjusted, well-rounded person who has had to deal with the likes of Tank (at least fairly frequently & in his professional setting) for pretty much his whole life.
He knows what Tank is like & he knows what he’s like; if Tank wants to whine, complain & insult somebody, he can do it from down there where anything he says isn’t going to have any significance. The whole thing I find funny about the comic is how Rock is treating this whole situation with such aplomb; the dude’s absolutely unfazable!
;)
Coelasquid, could I ask you for a tip or two?
I am a part of a Jediism realist group, and as a project to teach newbies I wanted to make a comic. Which is immensesly much harder than it looks, lol!
Do you know of any good, free programs that will aid you with coloring? Cause obviously Paint isn’t too practical or handy when you handdraw first and then scan the drawing in.
Also, my strength was always shading and sketching, never proportional correctness. And drawing comics it seems you have to be good enough with drawing realistic proportions so you can take some liberties with it and thus having it look great. Got any tips for that?
You probably won’t see this, but then I’ll try again next monday.
Loved this, btw. My favorite part of Commander is how he’s this big buff tough guy, and yet he is more intelligent and sensitive than most I know. He’s actually a role model, when you think about it. Particularly for young men, who could learn a thing or two from how he handles things.
In any case, I babble! Good work, as usual.
Appreciate any tips you can give :)
Ah, I personally use manga studio, which isn’t very expensive. If you stalk Amazon you can get the basic stripped down Manga Studio 5 (mostly it just doesn’t have the page manager and print guide that the full one does) for $10-40 depending on sales. It has a lot of tools that vastly speed up the comic making process like panel rulers and a “fill all layers” paint bucket tool that allows you to bucket fill on an empty layer and the program will mask off areas as though your line art is on that layer. That might sound confusing if you don’t have much digital colouring experience but believe me, it is extremely useful. I work on a cintiq, which allows me to draw directly on the screen, but that’s a pretty pricey tool if you aren’t a professional artist so it coud be better to draw your stuff on paper, scan it, and just colour on the computer.
Some totally free programs I haven’t personally used but hear recommended a lot are SAI painter, Gimp, and FireAlpaca.
As for anatomy, just really intense research into deconstructing the human body. There are some anatomy books that will break down the origin and insertion point of every muscle in the body for you so you can understand how things layer up. Here’s a cheat sheet I made like six or seven years ago for someone who asked me “how do you draw”, and here’s another one I made specifically about varying body types and musculature in different types of athletic male characters. Other than that, hours and hours and hours of life drawing and studying anatomy charts.
Good luck!
Thanks a bunch!
I’ll look for those you mentioned, and I really appreciate the advice. I have a few of such books so then I am starting at the right place.
I’ll bookmark your cheat sheets too.
This made my day! :D
Good luck with everything, and thanks again!
That is a lot of colors of juice in the back of Tank’s head.
‘SO THOUGHTFUL’, that line just makes the comic.
So Im guessing Tank is what Commanders creators wanted Commander to be like? Man, its not pretty
I love this comic so much, you’r artwork is fantastic.
P.S. sorry but I gotta nitpick in panel 3 Tank’s arm has no juice and in panel 6 Camander lost his arm spikes
We don’t see them after he pulls out the knitting needles so I’m assuming he took them off do they don’t get in the way of knitting.
Yeah I’ll bite that makes a whole lot of sense.
That structure is held up with a wooden pole. Tank has a chainsaw. Just a thought Rock should’ve had first.
He’s just jealous of that bitchin’ throne she has.
He needs a scarf that matches his wires, then he can accessorize that cyborginess. Beware the fukken 700 pound cyborg with a sense of fashion!
I love his rainbow wires
It’s often frustrated me how in the Nondescript Space Future (in other media), it’s still treated like a big deal when non-white-male people have positions of power/influence (or just positions). Surely by the distant future our modern day hangups are all hung up?
So my first thought on seeing rainbow tubing was HA juxtaposition between aggro ultra-macho man and the effeminate gay man stereotype
Then well no it’s the space future, and sexuality doesn’t appear to have much to do with somatic personality. no reason for it to. (plus, not all that is rainbow is LGBT*)
But then remembering the pop-culture status of these characters, in world- they’re designed to appeal to people. Just because discrimination may not be a big deal (although, Tank’s aggro’d up misogyny might indicate otherwise? up in the air) doesn’t mean identity groups go away- so having characters that identity with this group or that is probably a really solid marketing ploy.
OVER-ANALYSIS GIRL, AWAY!
PS now I think, I didn’t see this come up in the discussion on Tank’s motivations for calling the Cap a bitch, but the space future setting would be a pretty good reason to give Tank the benefit of the doubt. There’s just no reason as I can see for denizen-of-the-future Tank to have been brought up in a world that routinely denigrates women like that- for being in ‘unfeminine’ roles, and wielding power. That leaves space for another reason for his attacks.
Word of God has said that’s how it is, and MGDMT is a story for modern times, reflecting modern issues and events. but hnn
Tank was basically socialized to be a heel so what he behaves like is not necessarily a reflection of what values the space future actually promotes.
I know Commander didn’t turn out how they wanted while it seems Tank has but what about the others? Should we assume that the brass has been trying to manipulate the rest of the characters we know into certain archetypes with varying degrees of success?
Huh. Why would the brass ever want to knowingly create a thorn in their own side ? I’m not a wrestling afficionado (just learned the term “heel” thanks to you), so I have no clue if such a character brings a lot of audience or not. From the very little I know about those shows, shouldn’t a “good” heel be someone you can actually trust, and know they’ll piss off the audience while not risking your life/bones ?
Given the fact, already pointed out by several people, that Tank didn’t use his chainsaw to destroy Angel’s hideout even though he is in full-rage mode, should we see him as a total success ? Did the government actually intended to make him a quasi-berserk with just enough self-control to not destroy everything on sight ? Because that would mean they were aware they would put him in for a pretty miserable life of self-loathing, since it’s from that he would keep the bit of control he has…
It’s possible that the brass figured he’d be the Daffy Duck of the team; the one who creates interesting conflicts with the rest of the group and who’s meant to be mocked. But there’s also the fact that the brass ALSO deliberately traumatized Rock by lying to him specifically in the hopes of turning him into a brooding anti-hero like Batman. And have repeatedly done other things that would have Sun Tzu sighing and noting, “this is not how you maintain good troop morale.” We’ve pretty much established that the brass are not all that intelligent.
True. It’s fascinating to see how their troop having a fraternal relationship, in some ways thwarted the government’s plans (like for Rock, who learned how to deal with overpowered drama queens and is very zen) but in others, was a critical tool to make them succeed (Tank would have been absolutely batshit crazy and uncontrollable without his family to ground him into reality).
That is one hella cool jacket.
I’m sorry the comment thread degenerated into a question about who’s fault the “bitch” comment actually is, Angel’s or Tank’s. Personally, I just love Commander staying logical, and not rising to the bait; which I’m pretty sure was your original point. So what I’m saying is, “Thank you for the comic, it’s fantastic as usual. Please ignore the people arguing for Tank’s POV and keep up the good work. Manly guys brings me a smile each week.”
Am I the only one who noticed that tank has a Goramn Chainsaw
Apparently I need to read all the comments
If anyone asks what this comic is about, I’ll just show them this page.
LOL There’s a fine line between provoking a fight and sibling jabs there, Cap. I have to admit he’s handling it pretty well, since I’m pretty sure Tank’s goal is to piss him off and goad him in to a fight. Which makes him surprisingly clever for a dude who’s in full angry mode right now.
I love the writing for Cap in this, since he’s so easily turning around what he says to defuse any anger it might cause inside of him. Classic sibling style arguing honed by years of bickering that reminds me of my youth. It ties in so well with his job that I wonder if this is part of why he’s so good at it. I’m sure it’ll be very sweet to see Tank all normal and maybe apologetic once he’s leveled out.
And now for something completely different.
…When exactly is this survival event taking place (time travel and all)? I know it’s at the most 2 million years in the past (Wild Boar being present), and as far as the hypothetical space future possibly.
I’m just wondering what kind of beasties they might run into next.
Another question, mostly since the backstory of Commander’s “family” is being developed: we know of course that Canadian Guy is from Canada, and is basically the best in quality Canadian badassitude (our pride and joy), that he tames moose herds barehanded and doesn’t sleep (rather hunts beavers at night).
Is he also a supersoldier from a different (obviously Canadian) unit? Is there a Hypothetical Space future Canada, with it’s equivalent of Alpha Flight (basically Marvel’s Canada-version of the Avengers)? That would explain why he has no interet in hockey: that would be the remit of another member of that team (probably with uber ice-skates that also work on pavement).
Or is he an early experiment in the technology that eventually created Commander and the rest of the crew, much like Weapon X? Technology that would have been replicated/borrowed by the US?
Could it be that Canadian Guy is basically the genetic ancestor of Rock Lobster?!? Have we found the missing link for space future soldiers??
… Sorry about that, just the ideas came pouring out, and I wanted to phrase them like a crazy researcher who feels like he’s found the secret of life, the universe and everything.
In any case: I’m curious about when this story arch is taking place, and in Canadian Guy’s origins too.
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/comic/in-the-home-stretch-now
That’s Tank on the left next to B52’s Robocop ex-girlfriend, right? He does look a lot more chill when he’s not pumped on aggro juice. Actually, he looks kind of sad – everyone else in the panel is smiling, he’s got that bushy-eyed half-frown.
I lean to the right and I’m a fairly sexist person at times, but even I can tell Tank is all hopped on rage juice and saying dumb shit about Angel because it bothers his bottom that Rock would rather follow a woman than him. I’d wager that deep down he knows Angel is the superior leader and that gnaws away at him. I’ve seen this sort of thing before where you get that one person in the group that can never accept that they might not be the best at everything, so when they are outperformed they do what they can to tear that person down.
That said, thanks for the years of great comics, Coelasquid. You’re awesome.
Sweet jacket!
I choose to believe that whenever Tank is level-headed, his implants have the Admiral’s voice scream “WHY AREN’T YOU THE HULK!?” directly into his brain.
It sounds like the kind of dick move he’d pull.
You look really hardcore in that jacket.
Just off topic, but am I the only one who thought Rock would have chosen a name related to the B52 bomber instead?
I was gonna do a comic about that but the official answer is J37 already got “Jet”.